bcnewe2 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 I've got the puppy pen all set up outside, 2 of the sides are a wall on an insdie corner of the house, 2 sides are fencing. I cleaned it out of junk, cut the grass, made it puppy proof then... a friend that is a total animal softie, including his dogs sleeping in the bed with him asks me if they'll be safe outside without adults to guard them? Well....I never thought of that. They've been outside in the high dessert since birth, they'er gonna live outside as adults. Do you think coyotes would come right up to the house and chomp on 2 lgd puppies? They'll be about 2.5 months old by next week. Geesh...I really thought I'd planned this out. Now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 They do sound like nice coyote sized snacks to me. Do you have a barn, garage or shed where they can sleep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Geesh...I really thought I'd planned this out. Now what? do you have them with the sheep? If they are going to be Livestock guardian dogs they really ought to be with the sheep or in very close proximity to them. WE have many coyotes and a bear and although we now have mature LGDs, the puppies are usually in a stall in the barn with sheep from the time we get them. They go to the pasture with them as well, provided it is puppy proof. We thought we had a puppy proof area one time and the first day the maremma found her way to the neighbours and they locked her up for us.... A safe place with sheep is the best for raising them; If they are littermates, you may want to seperate them and allow them some play time together during the day however as they grow up sometimes they can gang up on lambs, (treat them as play things) Enjoy them! I love LGD puppies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Coyote snacks. They definitley should be with the sheep, preferably in a smaller pen (electro net would be great, not to mention added protection) within the larger pasture of sheep that are already being guarded. Add a gentle ewe for company. Prefably this set up with be individualized for each puppy. Running them together might work, or they may very well just become very bonded to each other instead of the sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 They are with sheep(bummer lambs) at the moment, have been since they were born. I don't have sheep yet but will be a matter of weeks to a month or so till I get sheep. We really don't have anywhere they won't be able to escape from except their puppy pen. My question is, since they won't have adults around will they become coyote snacks while so young. I've raised a few LGD so I'm very familar with lambs being play things. That's one of my reasons for getting 2. THey play way better together than with lambs. I know there's some training involved when the time comes that they are with lambs as a certain age but I'll be here to redirect. I love all puppies but LGD's in general are one of my favorites! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 yes, they will be snacks for months without protection from you or an adult lgd. Depending on your threat level (coyotes at my friends place in Colorado will take a dog up to 30lbs) these pups may not be safe, much less useful, for a while. I would still seperate them until they were at least 8-10 months of age. From now until then they would be bonding to the sheep. As adolescents having another dog to play with will help redirect some of the angst, but by far we've found that 2 littermates get each other into more trouble than anything else. My littermate Maremmas were raised as you are anticipating doing with your pups and I got them at a little over a year. Together they are distracted, wandering, and a pita in general. Seperated they are great dogs, attentive to their sheep and close working. Since then I've looked at other raising situations and putting a pup in with an adult (at least 3 years old or older) after sufficient bonding with the sheep alone seems to work the best. The pup still had a buddy, but he does not have a partner is crime. my 2 cents. I'm sure others will have suggestions too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Oh I don't expect them to be useful for quite some time. That's part of the issue. Having sheep to bond with right now will leave the sheep and pups unprotected. But not having them will leave the pups sheepless for to long, if I dont' get sheep soon. I'm pleased with this line, they come from hard working stock. The woman I'm buying them from tried to sell me 3.5 month olds for way more money saying they were working already. OK...tell me another one! But by the time I got there to pick out these 2 the older ones were already put out to high country as they were to fiesty with the reg. farm dogs, Not the same parents but sounds like good guarding lines. I want puppies so they bond or at least learn to tolerate working dogs, mine in particular. So What I'm thinking is for now, they might be sleeping crated inside till the right age to let them out. When I get a few sheep, I can keep one penned up and the other with the sheep, switching around as I need to. During the day they can go in the pen by the house unless I'm out there. We have lots of heavy equipment so they need supervision during the day too. I'm going to plan on these being fine and deal with each thing that comes up on a case by case basis. At least I have more experience than I did with my first ones. I remember way back when I had my first guard animal, a very young llama. We had a backhoe parked on the prop. and the llama started guarding it. When the guy finally came to pick it up Al wouldn't let him near it till I said he had too. I'll let you know what we end up doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 A safe place over night, in the barn or shed will be good; I'd let them play a little together under supervision but when with the sheep, one at a time; Even now with my guys (5 y.o. Pyr, 3 y.o. Akbash, 1.5 y.o. Polish tatra) if we have either of the girls out with the Pyr they wander; by themselves they are fine, stay with the sheep...but introduce Charlie and they go on walk abouts... We did porcupine quills on Monday night at 11 pm... but i digress Safe place during the day..and don'tkeep them with bottle lambs, bottle lambs don't act like real sheep c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 If they are to be crated at night can't you just crate them outside in the puppy pen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Hi Cynthia I don't have sheep right now. Will ASAP. Everyone has a different story. My last 2 weren't litter mates but were together from about 4 months on. THey were totally bonded but they both stayed with sheep unless they got board then I'd find them up with the neighbors cattle. Neighbor didn't mind but I did. So we took care of that with shotgun shots over their heads when they were with the cattle. They were wanders but they really did a great job of staying with the sheep, normally. My barn and sheds are full of junkyard crap at the moment. It's on the list but first things frist. I just have to make sure my list is done in my time frame. So a crate in the basement at night with my son will probably have to work for a little while. At least till they're old enough to not get chomped. I also have a pretty tight chicken yard that I could put them in, but I want them to see what's going on so they won't bark at the nosie all day. Not that I really care but they need to see that heavy equipment can be here and not be a threat. Plus I have lots of strangers coming on the place. Workers, truckdrivers and heavy equipment operators. Thank doG they are all animal lovers. I have to keep the bc's up during the day or I find the workers playing stick with them. Plus they let them beg for food at lunch, NOT OK WITH ME! THe heavey equipment should be gone middle of summer, but I'll believe that when it happens Did I mention, I hate bottle lambs...they're cute but PITA's. I sell mine as quickly as I can find someone to buy them. no bummer lambs for me! I've never had to deal with porcupine quilles....guess that's one of my blessing so far! What a job! Thanks for all the words of advise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 If they are to be crated at night can't you just crate them outside in the puppy pen Now that's a thought. It'll be right outside my window. So I'd hear any scuffling. But I'd hate to have to run out with coyotes trying to break into a crate. Just playing it by ear as it happens. This morning at 5am, DH says I woke up bitching about DS being late for school, I think the semi was rolling out of here and had me dreaming. I need a junkyard break! Thanks to Laura (from here) I'm leaving at noon for a play date with sheep. who cares it's a 4 hr drive one way...it's sheep and a junk break! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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