O/T: If this doesn't make you mad...

[Malvie]

I understand (reluctantly) the need for animal testing.

 

Destroying an animal for a sales demonstration makes me so mad I can't breathe.

 

I will never say anything good about the Cleveland Clinic again.

 

At least the doctor is in "trouble"

[Anda]

To do such thing for a sales demo it's just wrong.

 

However...

 

As daughter to two scientifical researchers, I understand (although it took me a few good years) the absolute importance of testing on animals for medical purposes.

 

Did you know that the polio vaccine, the one that saves million of lives, is cultured on monkeys' kidneys? I learned this in a pretty shocking way.

 

I knew that at my parents research institute, in a certain building, they had monkeys, among other lab animals (rats, guinea pigs, mice, rabbits). So of course I wanted to see the monkeys! Right? I was less than 7 Plus I wanted a monkey to take home, if all possible

 

I saw the monkeys, all Gibraltar Macaques, in cages, angry little things, screaming at anyone in a white coat (including my dad) and throwing their food at us. It smelled bad and they were acting ferocious. Kindda changed my mind about taking one home (not that my dad would allow such thing in a million years - or even have the power to take one home!)

 

But on our way out, I saw a bunch of posters and photographs on the walls. They were showing dead monkeys hanging upside down and their kidneys removed. I couldn't believe it! Until that moment I was sure the only thing they would do to those monkeys were take blood or inject them with stuff. So I almost went back to free the monkeys!

 

Well, then my dad explained to me that without the polio vaccine which was being produced in that lab, million of people would continue to be crippled or even die. And there were a couple of older ladies working in that institute who were in wheelchairs due to having had Polio at a very young age in the early 40's. So it put it all in perspective.

 

And I no longer thought that my dad and my mom and everyone else in that institute were in the business of killing animals, but rather saving lives (both human and animal).

[tanya4]

Many people don't see dogs as companions. They see them as animals. Kinda like chickens. It's sad, but that's why China has dog farms, just like we have livestock farms. I only hope that they are treated humanely (I know they're not in China).

[smileyzookie]

That brought me to tears. That poor dog. Dam it I freakin hate people that think dogs are disposable... or any animal for that matter...

 

Im already mad about Britney spears paying $3200 for a new puppy from a pet store. She had 3 dogs and when she got preg she got rid of them...poor dog I think we all know whats in its future. So much money goin to a puppy mill.. argh.. just eats me up... Dogs arent disposable.

[Laura (Cady and Koda's mom)]

Well, to me what's different about this is that the dog was used for a sales demonstration, not research. Coils are already used in people for this purpose, so he wasn't testing it, but showing off at the expense of the dog.

[sea4th]

I think a certain amount of animal research is necessary. (Though animal research for cosmetics really galls me). My problem is the callous attitude toward living beings, on the part of a lot of these people in research.

 

I have a couple of friends who work in in labratories where they use research animals. One of them works at the Cleveland Clinic. She takes the time to make sure these animals are treated as kindly as possible before they die--mostly mice, in this case. She also has taught some of these researchers to look at this living beings not as disposable commodities who don't feel pain, but in fact, the opposite. At least a handful might have come away with a slightly changed attitude.

 

There is a Dr. Robert White, a neurosurgeon, now retired and well known, who has come out in defense of this situation. He will be speaking in a few minutes on a local television show here. (Hell, he's been speaking out on this the last couple of days). While he might be an excellent surgeon, his attitude bothers me. Regarding this case, he claims people who protest this are "animal worshippers". I was sort of stunned at this remark, but I feel it's a PR move on his part. It was said, I think, to discredit feelings of hostility toward the doctor who killed that dog for demonstration purposes.

 

Robert White also is the one who performed the first head transplant, on a monkey, here in Cleveland in the '70's. They have footage of that and are showing it now in conjunction with Dr. White's appearances because of the situation in Cleveland Clinic. The monkey lived a few hours and then died. He did the same thing in 2001 with much the same results, I think.

 

http://www.clevescene.com/issues/1999-12-09/putre.html

 

As far as the way dogs are treated in Asian countries, --I am repulsed by it. It's not so much the eating of dog---different cultures have different palettes. It's the way dogs (and other animals) die over there. There is no quick death. Public hangings of dogs as entertainment for a village, skinning them alive - for food and fur. I have a friend whose husband was stationed in Asia somewhere - Korea, probably. They spent a few nights somewhere out in the sticks, not too far from a dog farm. He is still haunted to this day by the screams of the dogs the soldiers heard during the night.

 

http://www.freewebs.com/dogsinasia/

(you can bypass the ad by clicking on the link in the upper right hand corner)

 

There is a movement in China to foster a different attitude toward companion animals. They have a long, uphill battle---but baby steps---eventually they get you to where you're going.

 

Animal research for medical purposes -- that's a painful subject. Without the animals who have been sacrificed for the betterment of mankind, we would not have the medical advencements of the last century. Think of how many people you know who wouldn't be here if it weren't for the sacrifice of all of these animals. However, I would like to see a less flippant, less condescending attitude on the part of those in research. I think advancements in medicine could still be made while keeping an attitude of reverence for the lives they are using---er, "reverence" being different than "worship".

 

Just my 2 cents.

[SincereArtisan]

Wouldn't it have been a much better demonstration if the device SAVED the dog's life??? I mean, really. Wouldn't that have been a more convincing demo???

[Malvie]

Like I said, I understand the need for animal testing for medical purposes. I've benefitted from the deaths of countless animals who gave their lives so I could have vaccines to keep me well, drugs to treat me when I'm sick, etc.

 

What I object to is this dog's life being squandered for a SALES demonstration. Not research. Just kill it so we can see how the device works.

 

No, I don't like that at all and I don't like the Cleveland Clinic's attitude toward it (based on their press statements and their actions).