Cowhorse Lady Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi, I am new to this board and have a couple of questions. I rescued Jack about 4 years ago when he was 1 1/2 yrs. old. He is a gift from heaven. He is very well trained, even has had some herding training. We (me and my animals) live on a small ranch. My problem is that Jack will not go inside any kind of shelter in the winter to get out of the cold. He has a nice big doghouse he won't use, and I leave the barn door open enough for him to get inside. But, he always chooses to sleep/stay outside in the open no matter how cold it is. If it is raining or snowing, he will get under the truck. Sometimes I need to lock him in the fenced dog area, but can't because he has no shelter except the doghouse which he will not use. Jack has lots of herding instinct and feels he must keep an eye on everything. But I don't want him to be too cold. I even moved his doghouse out of the fenced area to see if he would use it, but he prefers to lay up against an old stack of hay. I do bring him in the house when it is very,very cold. Is this typical of border collies or just Jack? Also, what is the most common word to use to tell Jack to leave the cows and horses alone? I used "enough" because I thought "leave it" was more for small things like something that would harm him or a ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 If Jack likes it in the house and is behaved is there any reason why he can't have a spot in the house. Do you have any idea why Jack may be the way he is. When we first got our dog Pete he as it seemed was not familiar with being in the house. He was two when we got him and he came from a ranch where perhaps he spent his life outside, we don't know much about his past life. When we brought him into the house he would want back out and he would find a place to sleep. Living where it gets very cold and lots of wild animals for him to get into trouble with I refused to let him stay outside. I made him a spot in the house and more or less forced him to use it. Now he is fine with being in the house and he is far more social. His work and work ethic I believe is actually improved. His health is good and he does not need to deal with 30 below nights. He has turned out to be an amazing dog. I use the term " get out of that ". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Welcome to the Boards Cowhorse lady! I think most people here (both city and country folk) will tell you that they live with their dogs inside the house at night. There have been numerous photos of various and sundry border collies on assorted pieces of furniture sleeping the night away - I hope Silhouettestable won't mind me using this here Is there any reason why he can't be in the house with you at night? As you already know, border collies are never happier than working and playing in tandem with their people, and this includes being with them as much as possible, even if they're resting or sleeping. In terms of Jack rejecting the doghouse, I don't know if there's anything specific about it that your Jack doesn't like, or if he is just intent on being at the ready should he be needed for a job (being able to see everything from a good vantage point), and therefore doesn't like to be confined this way. It sounds like he knows how to settle, so that necessarily isn't the problem, just his choice of location. Have you tried putting a nice bone in there for him to work on to make the spot more enticing? I'm sure others will have more to say on this though since I'm a city girl. I'll leave the question about commands to keep him from the horses to the working dog people since they will know much better than I how to direct you. Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 How cold does it get where you are (didn't see a location in your post)? Maybe he's comfortable outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtotwo Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I have one of mine that is the same way! He has an awesome igloo dog house and a shed but he prefers to sleep at the edge of the deck...not even under it! He loves the snow and the cold. As he's getting older he is spending less and less time outside but it used to be hard to keep him in out of the cold! I have a picture of him I wish I could find where we scooped about a foot of snow off half the deck. Where did we find him....laying on the snow side just as happy as he can be! As far as the cow/horse thing we use Out. Basically it's a term of whatever you are currently doing, stop and go find a "safe" place. I think whatever you use consistancy will be key! I have to agree though that all of their favorite places to be is with the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellsTucker Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I too am new to the boards but, thankfully, I found my way here and have embraced all the comments tremendously. I am a new Mom, Tucker is a year old. Although we are in the desert, the wind can be bitter at night and Tucker is not a dog house kinda guy, although he failed to inform me of that prior to the building of the best little dog house in AZ. At least I thought it was great, he on the other hand looked at me like I was nuts and slept by the door to the house. Ok, so now he sleeps in the house, I caved. He loves to be anywhere we are and thats the main thing. As a member of the family, he has earned that right. I am glad to know that all of you have experienced some similar things. He is my special boy and quite the gift. So, thanks all and if you need an empty doghouse with a penthouse view, let me know, mines empty live and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 If you don't want him in the house, a kennel in the barn would be fine. You can put the dog house in the kennel and bed the whole area with straw. If he's hot he can get out of it, if he doesn't like the house he'll be warm enough with the bedding to dig down into. He hasn't the training, and may not have the personality to turn "off" when he's not needed. You'll have to do it for his own good. There is nothing wrong with keeping a working dog in the house if you choose, but many don't for various pefectly acceptable reasons. The dog's need for companionsip is more than met in a true working home (most actually get more human time than your average pet) and a quiet kennel for night is not an issue. The main thing is that the dog is safe. Right now he isn't in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc friend Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 In one of the James Herriott books, there is a story about a sheepdog that insisted on sleeping on the back stoop of the house even when it was snowing and refused to sleep in the kennels provided for the dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I think Wendy's (Lenajo's) solution makes perfect sense. If he's in a dog run/kennel in the barn he's protected from the elements and he can either snuggle in straw or use the house. My dogs stay inside, but I see nothing wrong with leaving him out as long as he's safely contained (this will protect him from stuff coming on your property as well as from wandering off the property or just going to work the livestock when you can't keep an eye on him). My dogs sleep in the house, but it's not a requirement unless you'd like him there. If you rescued him at age 4, it's entirely possible he's never known anything but the outdoors and so is just sticking with the familiar. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osioda Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I also suggest that you fix a place in the barn, for him to stay, and actually shut him up in there,( But ) fix it so he can not just set an stare at the livestock. My dogs do not sleep in the house, and for one reason I have to many of them. And my dogs are working and or training everyday, rain, snow , mud it doesn't matter, and for that fact, I could never give them all a bath everyday an let them in the house, I do like putting fresh straw down for them in there pens so that actually between the straw and themselves they will clean up. I also have several sleeping stalls for each dog, everyone of them have there own pens Inside and outside. I do let them play with each other during the day times. As for my command I teach when I don't want them watching and bothering the stalk I use the term (There OK) For that term then does not confuse them in any other words I use for teaching. As for staying outside, I have a couple that would just as soon stay outside all the time also. But I will not let them. I do have one that does stay on the inside porch with me, but the only reason of that is that he is semi retired and his joints are stiff and the cold is hard on him. And I would never have to worry about him, he will lay on his bed and never move all night anyway. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowhorse Lady Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Thanks for all your input. I live in Nevada and the coldest it gets (rarely) is between 0 and 5. First I should add a little bit more about Jack. Jack loves it in the house, and he and my Queensland Healer both have their own beds in the bedroom and the family room. But, they are basically outside dogs. If it is extremely cold, I will keep them in for the night. They are both very good in the house and when we go to bed they go right to their beds and lay down to sleep. Once I am in bed, Jack will rise up and ask for his kiss and pat goodnight before he goes back to sleep. When I first got Jack, I was told he was given up because his previous owners were having company over, so they locked him in a shed. Jack didn't like that and tore up everything in the shed. I wouldn't like that either. I was also told that he was crate trained and was given a large crate along with Jack. The first couple nights I put Jack in there with a blanket. In the morning I would find diarhea all over the crate and the blanket shredded. So, I never used the crate again. I don't think Jack is rejecting the doghouse, I think he is just intent on being at the ready, like one of you mentioned. Because he will go in the dog house if I ask him to. He just doesn't want to stay in it whether it is winter or summer. It may have to do with the above experiences. As for putting him in the barn, I leave the barn door part way open at night, and I leave one stall door open where I keep some of the hay so he can go in there and keep warm. But, he just stays outside. So from what many of you said, as long as he isn't freezing, he is ok. He gets a very heavy winter coat. And like I said, if it is too cold, I do bring them in. My ranch is in a large farming/ranching community where ranch dogs are left loose because they keep the coyotes away. And Jack doesn't try to work the cows or horses at all during the night. Only when I am up and about. And my dogs don't leave the property. They know where the boundaries are. I use "out" when I want the dogs to get out of the arena, corrals, pasture, truck, house, etc. So, as long as I am consistent, whatever word I choose to use for "don't work the livestock" is ok? Thank you all very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Is it possible that Jacks problem with the doghouse could have everything to do with his past experiences, it sounds that way to me. Could Jack be looking for an open place to sleep away from the house for fear of being locked up or worse, could it be a sense of rejection as well. It sounds to me that Jack does very well in the house and even tries to communicate with you at bed time, my dogs do the same thing. It is the same routine every night when I go to bed. They all come to me for their end of the day social period before we go to sleep. It sounds to me that you could do Jack a lot of good and a big favor having him join the pack at night for sleep time. What is an outside dog, what is the purpose of having Jack outside at night. It does not sound to me that he prefers to be outside at night at all based on his actions. I am an outside person but I live inside out of the elements for obvious reasons and I sleep with my family / pack indoors at night in the big den if you will. You did not bring this up but I have been told by other trainers and handlers from time to time things like do not allow your working dogs on the bed, do not let them out of their crate at night etc. or I could destroy their ability to work or whatever. I manage my dogs the way I prefer and what works for me and one of the things that works for me is having my dogs inside at night where I know they are safe and comfortable and close to me. They all sleep in my bedroom pretty much surrounding my bed. In the morning they will all be ready to go to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silhouettestable Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 There have been numerous photos of various and sundry border collies on assorted pieces of furniture sleeping the night away - I hope Silhouettestable won't mind me using this here I don't mind at all. But didn't you know that my dogs sleep in a doghouse too? My house is a dog house Actually they all sleep around my bed, or on my bed or in the hall just outside the bedroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 My Aussie sleeps in her crate beside my bed at night. She always has since she was 10 weeks old. My word for stop harrassing the animals is quit. Whatever command you use, be consistent and mean what you say. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchersMomma Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I know nothing about hearding but might have a story that will provide some insight. When I was a kid we had a husky. My dad and brother built him the most amazing doghouse and Nakki loved it and used it regularly. However, one night, we had a HUGE snowstorm...my dad had to actually crawl out a window in order to shovel out our doorway so we could get out of the house. Nakki's house was buried in this storm and he became trapped inside. My dad had taken an old truck mudflap and used it as a door which kept out the elements but also made it impossible for the dog to dig his way out. By the time my dad dug him out he was frantic and nearly suffocated. Never went in the doghouse again. Perhaps your boy has had a similarly negative experience and so prefers to either be with you or outdoors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Oop Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I have two very nice elevated, wooden dog houses with padding and beds in them and my dogs avoided them like the plague when we first got them -- preferring to lay under the trailer or just out in the open, even when it was cold and/or snowing. I don't think that it's necessarily a natural response for a dog to want to go into a doghouse. My dogs both had to be trained to use the doghouse, and they had previously been crate trained. I don't use a door on the doghouses, because I find that the dogs both prefer the door to be open (I just put the houses in an area that they are out of the wind). I had to use dog treats thrown into the doghouse repeatedly for the dogs to dart in, grab the snack and then come out. They do use the houses now, but it took a couple of weeks of using the dog treats to get them to even go inside. If Jack just won't use a shelter willingly, Lenajo's solution sounds like a good one -- you might have to help him by shutting him into the barn at night with the doghouse inside. FWIW, my dogs sleep in our house at night, but spend 5 or 6 hours outside every day and now use the doghouses if the weather is particularly bad. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 But didn't you know that my dogs sleep in a doghouse too? My house is a dog house Too funny. Several years ago, when I was telling to my dad how I had gates installed so I could close my dogs off in the kitchen which had a dog door that led to the garage and then another dog door that led from the garage to the backyard. After I finished my explanation, he said "Your house is sort of an elaborate kennel, isn't it?" I asked him what was his point? And while I have a a couple of crates and one indestructible (Quinn proof) dog bed, the real dog bed is the one I also sleep in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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