Advice for someone whose dog bit the paper boy

[Kyna]

Hi all,

 

My husband told me today that one of his colleagues has a friend who's BC bit the paper boy, from what I understand the dog waited behind the fence and then went for him causing 5 stitches in the boys back leg. The paper boy is apparently quite afraid of dogs and I don't know any further history on the boy or the dog except that the family has just moved from an acreage to town (a small town but still town).

 

His colleague has seen our dogs - one who is almost 11 and is incredibly reliable and well trained and one who is 2.5 and is well trained, listens well, but sometimes puts the 'eye' on rogue 2 or 3 year old children - something for which I would like to get help and will over the winter. Anyway because our dogs appear to be so good his colleague is asking my opinion. I am not a dog trainer - the only things I know are what I have learned from my sisters now deceased agressive BC (and her trainer), my BC's and my agility classes and instructors.

 

So this is what I came up with for advice - before I press send I'd be open to hear your comments - good or bad. I don't want to steer these people in the wrong direction and I want to give them responsible advice!

 

"1. They can start working with this dog and training it. This is a 3 part solution:

1. He/she is probably bored if it has just moved from an acreage to a house – I think any kind of training would do, agility, obedience, herding, rally-o – just some kind of formal class, once a week to keep the dog’s mind busy and some discipline. I know of some classes and can provide contact info.

2. At the same time I’d find a trainer who could help them through the aggression. BC’s can be aggressive dogs and they may always have to watch this dog around strangers. It is a lot of work but can be really rewarding. I know a couple of instructors in the area and can ask around.

3. Commit to walking the dog every day twice a day (if they aren’t already doing this). It should be an interactive walk with a little training and fetch.

 

2. Give up the dog. This is passing the problem along and I would strongly recommend it goes to a Border Collie rescue and NOT the SPCA. Border Collie rescues know what freak shows BC’s can be and are more equipped to deal with and work on this kind of aggression than the SPCA. There is a really good rescue in Vancouver and I can provide contact information."

 

Having just moved to the area I don't know any trainers but am starting a couple classes with my dogs just for fun over the winter. So I don't know if I could find them a knowledgable trainer. I have heard a variety of paradigms from different folks and am not always impressed with what I hear so it is hard to recommend someone and I am certainly not qualified!

 

Anything I should add or delete?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Kyna

[MrSnappy]

My first piece of advice? Tell them not to leave the dog out in the yard if they intend to have people like paperboys and letter carriers come into the yard. It's simply asking for trouble. Were the dog in the house at the time, it would never have happened.

 

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best one.

 

RDM

[beachdogz]

My first piece of advice? Tell them not to leave the dog out in the yard if they intend to have people like paperboys and letter carriers come into the yard. It's simply asking for trouble. Were the dog in the house at the time, it would never have happened.

 

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best one.

 

RDM

 

I second and third that...I was also going to respond the same way. My neighbors just had an incident with their terrier that they left loose in the yard with construction workers who were remodeling their house...and they had a bite incident. My first question to them was "WHY would you leave your dog loose in a yard unattended with a bunch of strangers?" sigh. some people just don't get it....with dog ownership comes responsibility.

[bc4pack]

Just remember though that things can happen, dogs can get out...

Find a trainer/ behaviour consultant that uses positive methods and is familiar with reactive dogs.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I strongly agree that the dog should never have been out alone, if that is the case. He/she was merely protecting what's his and if they've just moved into the neighbourhood there is a good chance the dog and the boy have never met before. Therefore, to the dog, the boy was an intruder. This, by the way, can happen with a dog that is well trained and usually friendly with strangers too. The boy, already being afraid of dogs was probably nervous entering into an area with a dog, so the dog could easily have picked up on those nerves and we all know bc's are sensitive and can be quick to pick up on these types of feelings. You should suggest that they don't leave the dog unattended outside, ever, and yes, seek advice from a credible trainer. Perhaps the dog needs some training and socialization. I wouldn't suggest giving up the dog, unless this dog truly is aggressive and WAY more than they can actually handle, it should go to a home that is more equipped to handle a dog with these issues, otherwise, they are just "passing the buck" so to speak.

[Kyna]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your replies. I certainly agree that not leaving the dog unattended in the yard is a no brainer - I guess I figured that was common sense - but thanks for bringing it up - I'll add that at the top.

 

As for suggesting they give the dog up, they are already talking about it so my point with that suggestion is that they consider a BC rescue instead of the SPCA. I have secret hopes that if they contact the rescue perhaps they could get advice from the rescue.

 

We now live in a small town and the attitude towards dogs is quite different in some ways. But I guess the thing that stays constant is that dogs are 'disposable'. In the city it seemed it was too much work and here it seems the dogs 'get' aggressive. My sister had a (BC) dog that was ajerk who died at 16 earlier this year. When my sisters dog started showing aggression towards children we didn't even consider giving the dog away. The first call was to an excellent trainer who in turn gave us excellent advice. And yes he actually did bite a child at one point. When her dog died he had 3 human children (aged 7 to 12) whom he loved and tolerated due to some training - they could also bring their friends to the house. It seems pretty common here that people get dogs who spend their days outside, get aggressive and then they 'give the dog back' and 'get another one'. I can see it happening - during our move we walked our dogs but we didn't spend as much time working/playing with them - they just don't seem to listen as well when they have been outside all day. So now we are gettting back to our routine and I have enrolled them each in classes this fall (because I am lazy and classes are a good way to keep them entertained and happy and obedient). Our younger dog may just have the makings of a 'jerk'. I don't think he is yet (my definition anyway) but I am going to contact the same trainer that helped my sister so many years ago (and helped me train my older dog) and get her input to see what we can do. Anyway, I digress

 

Thanks again for your suggestions.

 

Kyna

[Kyna]

Yep, you called it - if the dog wasn't outside it wouldn't have happened. The paper boy was taunting the dog - that's all the detail I have. Unfortunately the dog still looses as the lady doesn't want to keep her dog. I am not sure what will become of him but he is being kept by a friend at the moment.

[MaryP]

As for suggesting they give the dog up, they are already talking about it so my point with that suggestion is that they consider a BC rescue instead of the SPCA. I have secret hopes that if they contact the rescue perhaps they could get advice from the rescue.

 

They need to manage the behavior by not putting the dog in a situation where there could be a problem. But, please understand that most BC rescues are not going to take a dog that has bitten someone before. Doing so will only open them up to all sorts of liability that most rescues are not going to want to take on. Giving the dog up to a shelter will likely result in a death sentence because most shelters will not adopt out dogs with bite histories either.

 

The paper boy was taunting the dog - that's all the detail I have.

 

If the paper boy is really afraid of dogs, I seriously doubt that he was taunting this dog. That is probably something that this family is telling others (and themselves) because they don't want to accept their responsibilty in the incident.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Yep, you called it - if the dog wasn't outside it wouldn't have happened. The paper boy was taunting the dog - that's all the detail I have. Unfortunately the dog still looses as the lady doesn't want to keep her dog. I am not sure what will become of him but he is being kept by a friend at the moment.

 

So what are the details on the dog? Male, Female, age? Where are you all located? Would they be willing to transport? Just out of curiosity, so if anyone can help this dog.....

[BustopherJones]

Anything I should add or delete?

Get a good attorney. This scenario has the ingredients for a lawsuit.

[Lenajo]

So what are the details on the dog? Male, Female, age? Where are you all located? Would they be willing to transport? Just out of curiosity, so if anyone can help this dog.....

 

We've been though this before on this list. It doesn't matter they "why", because once a dog has bitten (especially a child to the point of documented hospital care) he's in never-never land for rehome. No Rescuer or group can handle that kind of liability. A few might try, but it jeopordizes their entire organization as well as themselves.

 

I suggest an attorney as well. *soon*. I would have him advise me if a letter of apology to the child's family would be in order - including a statement of what was done with the dog. Certainly the dog owner should be paying any hospital/ER bills.

[Kyna]

As I mentioned - this is a friend of my husbands colleague - so I only get bits of information. It doesn't sound like the boys family is interested in having the dog put down or in a lawsuit. Apparently the boy does have issues - which by no means meant he should have been bitten. I was bitten in the face as a kid and we never entertained the idea of having the dog put down or a lawsuit - may be these folks have the same reasons - who knows. I don't know any further detail. I don't know what is going to happen to the dog but for now it seems the dog will not be put down and they are trying to re-home the dog with the boarders son - but like I said I am not sure at this point.

[Eileen Stein]

Please don't tell them that no rescue will take the dog. It simply isn't true. Many rescues won't take a dog who has bitten. Some will, depending on all the circumstances, which we do not know. It is the rescue which should make that decision, if it comes to that, and not us.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

We've been though this before on this list. It doesn't matter they "why", because once a dog has bitten (especially a child to the point of documented hospital care) he's in never-never land for rehome. No Rescuer or group can handle that kind of liability. A few might try, but it jeopordizes their entire organization as well as themselves.

 

I suggest an attorney as well. *soon*. I would have him advise me if a letter of apology to the child's family would be in order - including a statement of what was done with the dog. Certainly the dog owner should be paying any hospital/ER bills.

 

What I meant was, since the dogs chances of being helped by a rescue were slim and since this is a fairly large community, someone on this board may be in that area and be well equipped to handle a dog with a past.

[Alaska]

I realize the OP is in Canada, but this US-oriented site may still be of use: Dog Bite Law.