Specific Question about Crate Training

[Ooky]

Odin is housetrained already and does not (so far) do anything bad when he sleeps by the bed at night. We don't need him to be crate trained for these reasons, and we think that confining him to the tile kitchen may be an option when we leave him alone, so we may not need to crate him regularly even then. But we do know he needs to be able to go in his crate for all sorts of reasons - particularly traveling. Also, my work is going to go to a policy where if you have a crate-trained dog that will be quiet when you leave your desk, you can bring your dog to work. This way, he could spend most of his days with me, getting several walks and a lot of exercise (and I would, like the smokers at work, actually take my full federal allotment of paid breaks and lunches!), plus the bonus of companionship and coming with me places rather than waiting at home in an empty house.

 

The reason I bring this up is that even though I've read every semi-recent post about crate training, plus lots of books and articles, no one seems to touch on our particular problem. He won't willingly go in the crate! We feed him in there every meal. We take it with us when we go places. We hide treats in there, or put them in to encourage them to go in. He will put his head in to try and get some kibble or treats at the back of the crate but if we say "good boy" he now quickly backs up and nervously gets out of the crate. If we wait until he's mostly in and eating his food and try to gently pop his back legs fully in so we can shut the door, he freaks out and crashes back out again. He's had several successful 2-hour turns in the crate, where he ate, or chewed on a bone, or slept, and he doesn't cry anymore. But each time we try to put him in, it is harder and harder to do. This morning he wouldn't even eat his breakfast, which as usual was served in the crate. I waited until he was finally hungry enough, 1/2 an hour later, to go in and start eating then I closed the door, gave him praise and a good treat, and stayed in view the entire time he had his meal and chewed on a bone for a while. But later, he really just wouldn't go in no matter what I did.

 

My question is that all the experts say they will cry, and you just have to put up with it for a few days and they'll understand it's a good place. But NEVER force him in -- is what everyone says. No one ever talks about what to do if he won't even go in for praise and treats! Now we are at a stage where his behavior is fine in the crate but I think we reached the point this morning where if he's going to go in there, we HAVE to force him in. I don't know what to do, since I am not supposed to force him in, but I am also not supposed to let him "win" when I clearly am asking him to do something reasonable. I felt bad today because he was upset, and clearly knew he was failing to do what I want which never happens. But he still wouldn't go. As I see it, my options are these:

 

1. Leave it for a few weeks as it is obviously upsetting him. We don't need him to be in it yet, so avoid damaging his attitude about the situation worse, and return to our efforts in a few weeks as he is a puppy and changes rapidly;

 

2. Don't give in, and force him to go in during nap and meal times. This will mean physically putting him in the crate against his will;

 

3. Try some new crate (and they are so expensive!), that has new sounds and a new smell, like a soft-sided non-travel crate or a wire cage-type crate (we have a plastic travel crate with a metal door now). Hope (no guarantee) that this will be viewed as different and inviting, and train him in that for a few months and reserve the plastic crate for airline travel later.

 

What do you think? It is possible he will never be crate-trained? Is there another option I'm not seeing? Which is worse, letting him dictate the terms, or forcing him to go in?

 

Thanks in advance for any guidance, it is sorely needed,

 

-ooky

+Odin (BC pup)

Dr. Benway (ocicat)

& Lobo (bengal)

[sluj]

I'd agree with the don't force him advice. I'd also try not to make a big production of it. Just toss some really good treats in, and walk away. Don't bother trying to get him all the way in, or closing the door. Once he's going in, you could sit by the crate (at the end opposite the door), and toss more treats in. I wouldn't bother trying to close the door until he's happy going in on his own. At least, this is what I tried with my parents' dog, who had been refusing to go in his crate for years. I actually tried locking him out of the crate, and still tossing treats in, and he actually squeezed in before I could close the door fully.

 

Good luck!

[fotobridget]

I've been there!

 

I bought Libby the plastic pet taxi, and upgraded as she grew.

 

Then when she was an adult dog--and her full size of 18 inches at the whithers and 44 pounds I made my final upgrade. We bought the biggest wire cage kennel.

 

The plastic kennel was a big problem, she hated it and would wimper when I put her in it, but I had no other choice. When kept in a bathroom or kitchen she'd chew her tail bloody...if left loose she'd chew incessantly--including electrical wires (up to the age of a year...she's now a 1 1/2) and I was terrified she'd hurt herself.

 

The wire cage was a different story. I made it a point of feeding her in it every morning and every night, as well as putting her in it and dropping random treats if she was relaxed and quiet in it.

 

It took me a while to get her near that point, though. Now she gets so excited by her kibble that she'll open the cage door and go in and wait for me to bring her her food!

 

I don't remember how old your dog is, but I would just be patient--and try a wire cage! My vet said she had skin allergies...especially to nylon and the plastic kennel had nylon mixed in with the plastic, so my vet thought it might be irritating her skin, and it was making her uncomfortable to be in the pet taxi...

 

Good luck, if you are patient and persistent you're dog will probably get accostomed to it...I know Libby did. (She's still kenneled at night and while I am gone. I think she likes the routine of being put in there every night for bed, as well)

[Sue R]

I think you have received a couple of very good ideas here. First, try putting the treats/food in the crate and leaving the door open. Let him go in and get the treat or food (or toy or chewie) and come right back out again, until he becomes comfortable that he can go in and out. Once he's comfy with that and will stay in the crate to finish a meal, you can try closing the door part way. Next step would be to close the door (maybe not latch it but just push it shut) and you can sit by the door until he finishes his meal. Then move further away, eventually out of the room, out of the house, etc. In other words, do this in baby steps. He's still pretty young, is he not?

 

Since he already has a habit that is worsening of refusing to go in, you will need to try doing this in very small increments. If he misses a meal, well, then the next meal will be that much more welcome.

 

The idea of trying a wire mesh crate makes some sense to me. If you know someone who might lend you one, you could try it without making a big investment. Some wire mesh crates have doors on each end - you could try having both open and letting him get a treat or meal and walk right on out. Some dogs prefer the enclosed crate that is more of a den in feeling but others may prefer feeling less confined.

 

My three use wire crates and, of course, having the three lined up makes it easier for all as they have other dogs in crates adjacent to them. I buy the Ultima from KV Vet and, with shipping, it is still quite reasonable, very sturdy, and has one side and both ends (these two swing in as well as out) with doors (very handy for different placements in house or car or by your desk).

 

That would be great if you could take him to work but, if the crate training just doesn't work out with your best efforts, you may just have to forego that mutual pleasure and be grateful to have a dog that can be left loose at home without separation issues or other problems.

 

Best wishes!

[Ooky]

Wow, you guys have given me some really great suggestions, and a new relaxed attitude. I will look for a wire crate, because it is not the expense so much as the fact that I had no idea if that would even have a chance of working. I am relived to hear that it is better to not force him - I am trying to be a firm but fair leader but there's a part of me that just keeps going, he's just a baby! Plus I read dogs commonly enter a fear-susceptible period at about 14 weeks, which he is.

 

Poor guy, it is so hot here too - probably another reason he doesn't want to go in and is having a bad day. It's supposed to reach 100 here today and we don't have AC. We also replaced the fridge that went out in the heatwave, which was a big commotion with my landlord and husband and other random people dragging fridges all over the house! But I fed him ice chips and now he's doing great, even investigated his crate for the treats I hid in there. Thanks so much, we will keep you posted,

 

-ooky

+Odin (BC pup)

Dr. Benway (ocicat)

& Lobo (bengal)

[urge to herd]

Ooky,

 

*Get a kong, moisten his food/kibble with water or plain yogurt, stuff kong, freeze, give to dog only in crate. It will cool him down and keep him busy.

*Buy a small fan, get him used to the noise/motion, drape a dampened large dish towel over the crate and point the fan at the crate.

*Make a game of going in and out of the crate at random times of the day, after he's gotten a little more used to it. Don't make a big fuss over it, it's just one more thing in the list of things you're teaching him.

*Give him extra super duper treats that he ONLY gets in the crate (see the kong suggestion above)

I don't think you necessarily need to wait any great length of time, give it a couple days, then start tossing treats in randomly and walking away. Ignore, ignore, ignore, whether or not he goes in to get the treat. Then proceed as Sue outlines above.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth n the BC3