Kitch Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 I went to the PM seminar this weekend and it was great! I highly recommend going to see her if you ever get the chance. She is as friendly and genuine in person as she seems on her dvds and through her writing. She spent a lot of time during breaks and after the seminar talking to people and helping them out with their dogs. She met Dublin and Mick and spent quite a bit of time discussing Dublin's car-chasing problem with me. She helped me make a decision in his 'treatment' of the problem, for which I am grateful. It was nice to get advice, not only from a well-respected professional, but one very familiar with the quirks of border collies. I went with a friend of mine and between us, we had 3 dogs (2 BCS and a Pom). I didn't realize until we got there that we were only allowed one dog per person (I'm sure I read that when I registered, but as I only had one dog at the time, it didn't really stick with me). I took both Dublin and Mick - Mick has mild separation anxiety and couldn't be left home (or boarded unless with Dublin). For the most part, the dogs were pretty good in the hotel. Dublin normally does well while traveling, but when Mick started barking he would join in. By the end of the trip Mick had settled down. At the seminar, I had the dogs in 2 soft crates at first, but Mick was reacting to a *huge* doberman that kept growling and barking (adolescent male unneutered dob). Even after the crates were covered, he kept whining. I unzipped both crates with the intent of bringing the dogs back to the hotel room for the day, when Mick ran into Dublin's crate and laid down. Neither dog wanted to come out and both were perfectly content in there for the rest of the day. I thought they would be cramped but both dogs were fine *shrugs* They even spent part of the night in the crate as well (I left it set up but open in the hotel room). I guess Dublin doesn't have any space issues. After the seminar, the dogs were wiped out from all that learning! So Mom, where are you going to sleep? Even the BC wannabe was tired... After they rested up, we introduced them to the wonders of the beach. We found a really dog-friendly beach in the Town of Falmouth, MA. I'll post those photos in the gallery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie+Tess&Kipp Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Cute photos. Mick sure knows where to go for comfort. And Dublin sure is a good sport. I'd love to go to something like this myself and take Tess with me (we have our own car-chasing/lunging issues ). Just have to find one anywhere near me! Allie + Tess & Kipp http://weebordercollie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 I meant to mention before when you said you were going to the seminar that I'm insanely jealous! She was over in Oz a couple of years ago, but I couldn't get to see her. Oh well, maybe next time. The boys seem to be getting on really well. Love the mental picture of Mick 'taking shelter' in Dublin's crate with him. I'd be interested in hearing some follow-up on the car-chasing thing - via PM and/or email would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Originally posted by Tassie:I'd be interested in hearing some follow-up on the car-chasing thing - via PM and/or email would be great. Oh, please do it here on the board. I'd be very interested as well. Specifics, please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 I'm glad you had a good time. I cant wait to go to a seminar with her. She seems so nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Awww! They're so cute! I've had that happen before too - when we got Zoe we specifically kept her out of Zeeke's crate just in case he had a problem with it... and one day I turned around to find both of them laying in his crate, staring at me. It's quite a relief. (Sometimes I still have problems when I say "crate" that they go in the wrong one, LOL.) I'm glad you got some good info out of it! I haven't seen any of her DVDs, but I've read some of her books and liked them a lot. I might try a DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoe Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 I'd like to know more info' re: the car chasing too ! And I am also jealous ! And I think it is wonderful that your boys are getting along so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Anne Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Wow, great pics... they are awesome. I'd like to hear a bit more detail on how she worked with various dogs and their "issues". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitch Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Sorry I took so long to respond - I have been crazy busy and haven't found the time to sit down and write a long response. re: the car chasing. (she is very professional and of course made it clear that she was just giving general suggestions/advice as she hasn't properly examined Dublin and seen him in the situation) I went over all the approaches I have tried and told her how he has gotten to the point where he can completely ignore 50-60% of the cars and only perks up/shows mild interest in 30-40% of the cars, giving me a ~90% success rate. The other 10% he still goes fullout on. She said that result isn't uncommon as you are dealing with prey/herding drive, which is an "on/off" behavior (ie all or nothing response). I also told her that he doesn't have a specific type or really recognizable pattern for the cars he goes for, which surprised her. At first it was only fast moving vehicles but now it can be vehicles of any type moving at any speed. One time he might go for a fast moving diesel pick-up truck and the next time it might be a really slow moving prius (which is kinda weird as they make almost no sound and I thought for a while it was cars that made certain sounds that set him off). Between those two cars, he might ignore 10 other cars that have gone by at various speeds. He also knows when I am in a position to correct him and will control himself much better than if he knows I can't get to him. I also told her about the one time he left sheep to go after a car (that got some raised eyebrows). Her biggest concern, though, was the time he got free and had the run-in with the 2 pick-up trucks. That was a *highly* reinforcing moment for him because instead of just being frustrated that the cars were 'getting away' he learned, instead, that he had the power to stop them. The ultimate reward for the behavior. When ended up discussing an e-collar as the next step. She said she doesn't often recommend them but she has for this situation 5 times in the last 18 years. She, of course, qualified it stating that I should get proper training in it so that my timing is right, etc. She also said to make sure he wears it for at least 3 weeks or longer before he is ever given a correction on it so he won't associate the collar with the correction. In the meantime, as much as possible I am to keep he away from situations that give him a chance to react to cars. (We take our walks in the cemetary where there a only a few cars to deal with at a time.) So, once I can save up enough for one, I will be giving it a try. I'd like to hear a bit more detail on how she worked with various dogs and their "issues".She brought 3 dogs up on stage. The first one was a dog aggressive boxer (that was fun as he walked into the room and right by my two dogs, but all went well). She had the owner run through some drills where the dog looked at the owner for a treat. Then PM had a loose and wiggly dog (the golden you saw in the picture) that was completely non-threatening and she approached the demo dog from various distances and when the dog looked to the owner he would get a treat. Pretty soon, the dog-aggressive dog was giving "auto-looks" to the owner whenever a dog approached. This way the dog was learning to look to the owner for reassurance. *the situtations were carefully managed and no dogs were put in danger nor was the demo dog put in a situation he was really uncomfortable with. PM stayed outside the dog's reaction zone and only infringed on the area where he was just slightly tensing up - obviously a lot more work would need to be done, slowly decreasing the distance between dog intereactions. The second demo dog was shy German short-haired pointer. He was uncomfortable around strangers and had a hard time with walks in the city because of this. She took a similar approach to the first dog but had people come up and help. She chose men and woman of various heights, weights, complexions, etc. Some guys had facial hair, some didn't. Some people had glasses or hats. She had them walk to a distance just about where the dog would react. They would walk up to the dog (never making eye contact, just looking away or down for the most part and standing sideways) and toss a really high-value treat in the dog?s direction. The dog started to relax and even took a step closer and wagged its little bit of a tail at one point. He never really was comfortable with the men, though. She said this is common - that many dogs that are fearful or shy react more to men than women - which often leads people to make the erroneous assumption that the dog was abused by a man in its formative years. This isn't the case (most of the time). Women tend to have softer voices, are physically smaller, and tend to have a more relaxed or slightly backward leaning stance and therefore are much less threatening to a dog. Men on the other hand, are physically larger (and have larger chests/torsos in proportion to the rest of their bodies whereas women tend to have our weight spread out between our chest and hips - some of us more than others. sigh...), have louder, deeper voices, are more likely to have upright or slightly forward leaning stances all of which is threatening to the dog - regardless of how kind and gentle the man might be. The last dog she brought up was the wiggly golden and she went through some exercises on getting him to focus on her among distractions. Wow, this turned out to be a long post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoe Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Thanks for writing it ! I hope the e-collar works. I would certainly give it a try if I were in your shoes. It is interesting about dogs reactions to men - or certainly Dylan's. We have the gentlest neighbour but he is tall and very forward leaning which makes Dylan nervous. He loves the guy and wants to get close to lick his hands, but it requires a little bit of courage on Dylan's part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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