Diabetic question

[WyoBC]

My mom's dog, Sage (GR) has been diabetic for a little over a year now. She's been doing really good and hasn't had a problem until about a month ago. That's when she started to eat less, and lose weight. She's lost about 10 to 12 lbs. We had her glcouse checked about three weeks ago and it was 520. But 11 units of insulin later she's down to 244. But she's still so skinny and almost refuses to eat. I have to hand feed her, if I can get her to eat at all. She on a all fiber diet. She'll eat black jack's food, but it makes her sugar level go up more. I know she's not getting anything else because everyhting's put up out of her reach.

 

Should we go ahead and feed her some of his food so she'll get some energy back? I'm really lost at what to do. We've done pretty good so far but it's just getting to be to much. I have looked everywhere and can't figure it out. Any help would be great.

[Beth G]

A.J. I'm glad that you posted here. I hope that you get alot more advice then I was able to give you.

 

There are several people on these boards, that share their lives with- or live with ALOT of dogs, (whether they breed or rescue them,)and they probably know ALOT about these things!

 

Also I am thinking, that maybe AK dog doc will be able to check out your post, and maybe be able to help you (as she has loads of good advice).

And she might be able to give you some input on what could be keeping Sage's sugar so high.

 

And maybe she can also tell you what else to ask your vet, ( As I know how desperate you and your Mom are getting wanting to figure this out).

 

 

Well, guys I don't know much, but all I could think of, was to ask A.J. (as to why Sage's blood sugar might be so high)was:

 

1)Had Sage had gotten into some other food?

 

2)Has she been on steroids lately?

 

3) Could she possibly have an infection maybe even a tick borne one kicking her blood sugar up?

 

4) Maybe stress was spiking her blood sugar?

 

A.J said No to all, but did say that#4 was a possibilty as his Dad and Sage do not get along well.

[Samantha J]

AJ, one thing we found with our Yorkie was as she was so small even a tiny amount of extra food would make a difference to her sugar levels. I was always watching her whilst out and about, like when visiting family etc as if she picked up a tiny amount of human biscuit then that night she would be drinking and weeing more.

 

Is it possible Sage is picking up crumbs or maybe something dropped by birds in the garden, Tammy ate a piece of pork pie once dropped by the birdies before i could get to it.

 

Tammy never went way too high or low thankfully in her 6years with Diabetes, she did have higher sugar times though occasionally like when she picked something up.

 

There are different types of insulin and i think different vets have different advice as to the type of food that is best so i can't comment on the food. I will however add that the way Tammy's insulin worked - she was on Caninsulin, she had 1 injuection in the morning with her breakfast then absolutely no food at all for at least 7 half hours after. Then she had her tea, hardly any treats - the only thing we gave her was raw carrot in the evening sometimes as a treat as this didn't effect her sugar levels. Tammy's insulin worked oh how much food she had, so i would think all insulin would work similar and so it is definitely not a good idea to give a different food. Tammy had the same food, the exact same amount of it everyday.

 

I would get your mum to have a chat with the vet perhaps about changing the food that Sage is on and maybe trying a differnt type of food that she will eat, this will change how much insulin she needs so IMO you really need to chat to your vet about it more.

 

Tammy lost a lot of weight actually, at first due to the fact she didn't have all those nasty treats we used to feed her. Then later on she just got thinner, i think with her though it was also her age as when we lost her she was 12yrs old.

 

Tammy would actually show different signs though than Sage when she was high sugar, Tammy would be starving and crying for food. It was horrible when she was like that, we could tell after a couple of years looking after her what her sugar was like even before we tested her by how she acted.

 

Sorry i can't help much more, i am familiar with Diabetes unfortunately but there are so many other things to consider and so i really can't think of anything else to advise.

 

Pm me if you want to chat anymore, i don't know everything but i do know how hard actually it is to keep them healthy when they have this horrible condition. It does get you down sometimes too but Tammy is proof you can have many years managing it and they still have a good life. It is hard though.

 

Best of Luck

[Samantha J]

AJ, one thing we found with our Yorkie was as she was so small even a tiny amount of extra food would make a difference to her sugar levels. I was always watching her whilst out and about, like when visiting family etc as if she picked up a tiny amount of human biscuit then that night she would be drinking and weeing more.

 

Is it possible Sage is picking up crumbs or maybe something dropped by birds in the garden, Tammy ate a piece of pork pie once dropped by the birdies before i could get to it.

 

Tammy never went way too high or low thankfully in her 6years with Diabetes, she did have higher sugar times though occasionally like when she picked something up.

 

There are different types of insulin and i think different vets have different advice as to the type of food that is best so i can't comment on the food. I will however add that the way Tammy's insulin worked - she was on Caninsulin, she had 1 injuection in the morning with her breakfast then absolutely no food at all for at least 7 half hours after. Then she had her tea, hardly any treats - the only thing we gave her was raw carrot in the evening sometimes as a treat as this didn't effect her sugar levels. Tammy's insulin worked oh how much food she had, so i would think all insulin would work similar and so it is definitely not a good idea to give a different food. Tammy had the same food, the exact same amount of it everyday.

 

I would get your mum to have a chat with the vet perhaps about changing the food that Sage is on and maybe trying a differnt type of food that she will eat, this will change how much insulin she needs so IMO you really need to chat to your vet about it more.

 

Tammy lost a lot of weight actually, at first due to the fact she didn't have all those nasty treats we used to feed her. Then later on she just got thinner, i think with her though it was also her age as when we lost her she was 12yrs old.

 

Tammy would actually show different signs though than Sage when she was high sugar, Tammy would be starving and crying for food. It was horrible when she was like that, we could tell after a couple of years looking after her what her sugar was like even before we tested her by how she acted.

 

Sorry i can't help much more, i am familiar with Diabetes unfortunately but there are so many other things to consider and so i really can't think of anything else to advise.

 

Pm me if you want to chat anymore, i don't know everything but i do know how hard actually it is to keep them healthy when they have this horrible condition. It does get you down sometimes too but Tammy is proof you can have many years managing it and they still have a good life. It is hard though.

 

Best of Luck

 

ETA - Another reason i think it is best to discuss with your vet the type of food you choose is that when Tammy was first diagnosed she was, under our vets advice, on a mix of ceasar soft food and a good kibble. I don't like tinned type foods now but she liked that at the time and this is the mix she had for a few years. Then she had a bad case of sickness and the vet did some blood tests in these we found her kidneys were slightly affected so we changed her food to kibble and fresh cooked chicken. So this was her diet then for the rest of her time. So i think it is definitely worth talking it over with the vet as to what food is best that she will eat.

 

There are also so many different things to consider, like you can give too much insulin as well as too little. I remember for quite a while until Tammy was stable we checked her urine 3x a day. This went down to once a day later on and more often if she appeared off colour. We used keto-diastix for her, exactly the same as the human ones.

 

 

woops meant to eta that not new answer

[Liz P]

*A consult appointment with a board certified vet nutritionist is worth its weight in gold for a diabetic pet.* Some will do it by phone if you don't live near one.

[Kyrasmom]

A very good resource for any diabetic pet owner is Pet Diabetes. There's a multitude of information there and a discussion forum which was priceless to me when my dog Kyra was diagnosed with diabetes.

 

It sounds like your mom's dog is not well regulated and probably never was, meaning her glucose levels were probably always too high even if you didn't see any red flags. Your best tool is monitoring and giving insulin is a glucometer. Checking the blood glucose is very easy with a reasonably cooperative dog.

 

Also, while high fiber diets are the norm as the fiber helps to avoid glucose spikes, some dogs cannot properly digest all that fiber. I used to home cook for my dog a mixture of white and brown rice with chicken and turkey as protein sources in addition to necessary vitamins and minerals. I had her very tightly regulated between 80 and 150 most of the time and tested her blood twice daily before meals/shots. We also did routine glucose curves once a month or so to see how quickly the insulin was being utilized etc etc.

 

The bottom line is that we were able to keep her healthy for three years (before cancer struck) with a good diet, a consistent routine, and close monitoring AND of course, a very very close relationship with our vet. We decided on our own to test but went to our vet to see what her thoughts were and she was very supportive.

 

If I were you, the first thing I would do is have a complete curve done at your vet's office to see if she is in fact getting the right amount of insulin and if the insulin is doing what it should. There are different kinds...

 

Discuss nutrition with your vet and/or a nutritionist to find the right diet. High fiber is great most of the time but it ended up blocking my dog and she stopped eating.

 

Consider home testing, it's really easy and I would be happy to walk you through it and I may even have an extra glucometer to send you as I boxed up all of Kyra's stuff. Either way, they aren't that expensive.

 

If good regulation doesn't help, then you need to consider other things, in fact, a blood panel at the vet's sounds like a very good idea to me right about now to make sure her organ function is ok.

 

Good luck...diabetes can be so confusing but it's also so easy to control once you get the hang of it. Check out the link I sent and the discussion forum, there's comfort (and ideas) among the members. And if there's anything I can do to help...feel free to ask.

 

Maria

 

PS: Forgot to add, a frequent motto is that "diabetics need to eat, even crap food is better than no food". She needs to eat, feed her whatever she'll eat and work accordinly with the insullin. If you're not home testing, you'll need to get your vet involved in this. Diabetics need to eat. If she doesn't eat, her glucose level will get so low that her body will come together to create a somogyi rebound which can be hard to get under control.

[WyoBC]

Thanks guys for all your help. I gave her some amoxicillion today thinking she had an infection and she really came around. She was like her old self all day today. Maybe that's what's wrong? As I understand an infection can raise her glcouse right? She did eat all her food today, and wants more now. It's nice to see her eat again. We're going to see how she does over the weekend and have her tested again Monday morning.

 

Thanks again guys. You are so much help.

[AK dog doc]

A blood glucose of 244 is still too high, though WAY better than over 500 is. You want her below 200, and ideally in the low to mid 100's.

 

Diabetic dogs are prone to infections (the high blood sugar impairs immune system function and encourages bacterial growth), and dogs with infections are hard to regulate. Their sugars go all over the place. I'd go to your vet, describe her improvement on antibiotics, get advice about how long to continue (I usually go at LEAST a week), and re-check her sugars when she's been on ABs for several days and see where you are. If still too high, ask them to help you regulate her better.

[billiegirl]

while you're at it with all these experienced and far more learned suggestions i'll throw in a wild card..........what if you ask about prickly pear cactus. i hear it helps with diabetes in humans....maybe in dogs too. it's worth a shot. http://www.petdiabetes.org/personal_technique/rena.htm

[Samantha J]

I am glad she is feeling better. I would still take AK docs advice and talk with your vet more.

 

I never tested Tammy myself with blood tests, fortunately for us she regulated quite quick and kept very stable- apart from when she picked up any crumbs, you could really tell with her when she had picked something extra up, like that pork pie incident that made her sugar go up a little, not way high but still go up. She was stable on one 15unit injection per day (her insulin was a mix of long and short acting so you only inject once, Tammy was so tiny so that was much better for her) apart from when she picked up some crumbs or she was ill.

 

For us the urine tests 3x a day worked, i know they are really only telling you what she was like a few hours ago, it isn't as instant as the blood tests. We carried on testing her urine for ages 3x a day even whilst stable then twice a day for years. You get to know your dog after a few years and can tell in their behaviour how they feel. I don't know if you test the urine now or not but if you are not testing blood yourself then the urine tests are really easy to do, you can write them down like we did and take them along to your vet to check.

 

 

 

Good luck