SoloRiver Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Who's going to Soldier Hollow this year? I'll be there with a colleague, enjoying the trial, and trying to get DNA from as many dogs as possible. Our project is expanding the noise phobia study in Border Collies to also explore hearing acuity and response in working dogs -- in other words, broadening the inquiry from purely pathological responses to noise to normal and desirable responses to auditory cues and commands. So, obviously the types of dogs that will be at Soldier Hollow are of great interest to us, and I'm hoping that the Border Collie community will be supportive of this research. My colleague, Dr. Nick Branson, is a veterinary behaviorist interested in "handedness" and lateralization in dogs and what other behaviors this may correlate with. I've told him that he may want to look at sidedness in working dogs. I haven't met him yet as he's coming from Australia to work on the project. We'd both be extremely receptive to any suggestions or comments that handlers and Border Collie folks may have about our genetic studies. Nick and I will be at the trial from beginning to end, so if you're going to be there, come find us and say hi. I look forward to meeting more Board-ites. I'm leaving my dogs at home, sadly, so I'll also need a dog fix now and then. This is how Solo feels about being left at home: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Hi. I'll be there up top doing setout. If you'll be at the pizza feed, we can meet up then. Way back when you sent me the stuff for your study, and I will admit to not taking the swabs and filling out the stuff , Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Oop Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 I will be there for at least one of the days, hopefully a couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 I will be there for at least one of the days, hopefully a couple. Same here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisingRiver Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 I'm hoping to go at least one of the days as well. I plan to bring just River. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Here's the link to the Soldier Hollow Classic web site: Soldier Hollow As a heads-up, just note that you can't bring non-competing dogs to the trials. The venue is awesome, a huge bowl with great visibility. Here is Anna setting out sheep last year. I think this link will take you to my photo album from last year. Please ignore the little explanations! I sent this slide show to my family, who think sheepdogs are from the planet Mars. Jan's 2006 Pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisingRiver Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Ok... guess I'm not bringing River. Boooooo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Ok... guess I'm not bringing River. Boooooo. I know...it's because it's not just a "normal" trial, where everyone there is either a handler or someone working their way up to being a handler (in other words, a BC savvy person). At any of those, (well behaved) dogs are always cool. But this is a trial for spectators, meaning, the general public, meaning some percentage of which will be total idiots around dogs. Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Oop Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 And there are a LOT of spectators - thousands each of the four days, actually. It is a very popular event. I would like to take my dogs, but on the other hand, its probably a good thing spectator dogs aren't allowed. I've watched how some of the dogs that get turned away at the gate behave (folks sometimes mistakenly bring their dogs). Their owners have no control of them and Brutus or Fluffy could very easily end up charging out onto the course and ruining a competitor's run, or at the very least distract the handler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon M Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 I wish I could go I have to ranch sit until Sept. 9th... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgt Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 I'll be lurking about there. If you can figure out who/where I am, I'll trade you 2 dogs worth of DNA for one bottle of single malt whiskey. Islay, please. charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted August 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Well Charlie, last I checked you were on the running order so you shouldn't be too hard to identify! Nick and I will also be attending the handler's meeting on Friday morning. Hmm, I guess I'll have to bring the single malt with me since real alcohol is in short supply in the Beehive State. Anna, no worries -- we'll have plenty of supplies with us to take samples at the trial! We'll be equipped to take both blood (highly preferred) and buccal (if blood is not feasible) samples. Blood is preferred because we will be able to run blood samples on the Affymetrix canine SNP chip, which means we'll be able to genotype 100,000+ markers per dog, orders of magnitude more than we can do with cheek swab samples. This data will be used for studies of behavior and of population structure. Cheek swab samples cannot be used for these kinds of analyses because there is not enough DNA in them and what is there is heavily contaminated by microbial DNA. We are only going to collect 3-5cc of blood per dog (less than a single swig of single malt) and are more than happy to take samples at the convenience of the handler (i.e., not when the dog is about to run, in the evenings after all the runs are over, etc.) I am personally interested in looking at population structure within the Border Collie breed and seeing if there is stratification based on what the dogs are bred for. By getting samples at trials like Soldier Hollow and the national Finals (where we'll also be), we will have a sample of "elite" or "top" working dogs by at least one fairly objective metric (i.e., not by my subjective evaluation of "working bred" based on how I personally read pedigrees, or based on "common knowledge," not that either metric is impossible to use but it won't be ideal). I realize there are many, many excellent working dogs that will never be seen at trials, but I have no reliable way to identify or access these dogs, so for now I am focusing on successful Open trial dogs with public records, etc. It will be interesting to look at these working dogs, at breed ring dogs, and at sport dogs, to see if there are any genetic distinctions between them. I would be surprised if there were not. This kind of thing is crucial for our understanding of disease and behavior within the breed. We need to structure our inquiries appropriately, and we won't be able to if there are actually three populations in one breed rather than just one, and we assume there is just one, etc. On the other hand, my personal hypotheses about population structure within Border Collies may not be true, and if that's so I also need to know that. Anyway, I digress. I'm looking forward to seeing you guys there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgt Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 "By getting samples at trials like Soldier Hollow and the national Finals (where we'll also be), we will have a sample of "elite" or "top" working dogs..." Oh. I'm, uh, kinda representing the very lowest stratum of working dogs. Damn. I'll be lucky to get a Bud Lite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted August 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I'm, uh, kinda representing the very lowest stratum of working dogs. Damn. I'll be lucky to get a Bud Lite. Well, I hear tell that "lite" beer is plentiful in the Beehive State so your luck is looking pretty good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I'll be lurking about there. If you can figure out who/where I am, I'll trade you 2 dogs worth of DNA for one bottle of single malt whiskey. Islay, please. OOHH!!! Waving arm up in air frantically--"I know! I know--teacher! Call on me--I know the answer to this one!!" Actually, in the photos that Jan posted from last year, I can see Charlie in one of them!!! Kind of like a where's Waldo thing...hehe I am personally interested in looking at population structure within the Border Collie breed and seeing if there is stratification based on what the dogs are bred for. Ok, Melanie--I have a PhD, but what the heck does this say in regular English? Well, I hear tell that "lite" beer is plentiful in the Beehive State so your luck is looking pretty good Actually, last year I discovered a great local ale, "Polygamy Ale"--the label reads: "why have just one?" I am not kidding. Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Oop Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Hey! There are a lot of great beers you can get in Utah!! Quite a few good brew pubs in the general region, too. The brewers of the aforementioned "Polygamy Porter" have an awesome restaurant and brewery just a hop-skip-n-jump from Soldier Hollow over in Park City. Wasatch Brew Pub. It's only about 17 miles away (or roughly 22 minutes). Melanie, you can also get Charlie a fine bottle of single malt in one of Park City's four (yes, count them f . o . u . r, package stores). Park City Liquor Stores. And, if you stop in SLC, I'll show you a darn fine wine store, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Tempting! Anna, I suspected that there were pictures that had people you'd recognize! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted August 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 "Stratification" means there is structure within a sample. For example, many dog breeds exhibit geographical structure, with American vs. European lines that are rarely admixed. With enough lack of gene flow, and/or differing selection regimes, these groups could become differentiated into distinct populations with different histories. Stratification can confound genetic case/control association analyses by resulting in spurious correlations between a genetic marker and a phenotype of interest (a disease, a behavior, a morphological trait). You may end up with a group of dogs in your analysis that all have a given disease, and also all exhibit similar variation at a particular marker, but it might be simply because the dogs are all related to each other, and therefore genetically similar to each other, not because the marker is actually associated with the disease. My guess is that most "split" breeds (working/show) have significant within-breed population structure, and we need to know this to be able to effectively look for the genes responsible for various conditions or behaviors in dogs. As an aside, it's something I think it would be interesting to look at in Border Collies for a number of reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Thanks for the explanation--sounds really complex, but interesting. I will have two related dogs with me, and two others who are unrelated...looking forward to seeing you there, Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Deb, I may just have to seek out that brewpub. Finding brewpubs when I am on the road is always a mission, Thanks! Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted August 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 If you do, let me know. I'll meet you there and buy you a beer! I wonder if the grant money will cover it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Melanie, If you are planning to collect samples at the finals, does that mean you or someone with you will actually be drawing blood? If so, I can make probably 5 dogs available (four of them related), and a 6th if you don't need pedigree information. And you don't even have to buy me a beer! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Julie -- YES! I am going to be at the Finals from Tuesday start through the double lift with two veterinarian colleagues and one vet tech. We would love to sample all five of your dogs. And I'll buy you a beer anyway, because we need to catch up. Man, I have a lot of people to catch up with. You have NO idea how much I'm looking forward to the Finals and seeing everyone. I really wish they'd been in PA while I was still living there, but at least this gives me an excuse to get back home and see all my old friends. The only sadness is that again I'll be dogless, to which Solo says: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Melanie, I could always bring you a substitute crazy red dog. What else will you need? Copies of the pedigrees? Descriptions of any quirks or sensitivities (i.e., noise)? The more I can get together beforehand, the better. If you're still looking at family relationships, Jill is also related to the five I'll have with me, and Farleigh is related much further back in the pedigree, so if you need samples from them, we can work out a way to draw blood here and either have me bring it with me or ship it to you once you are back in CA. I look forward to seeing you--it's been forever! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Julie, I LOVE you! We are looking at family relationships. Ideally I'd be able to collect numerous "small" pedigrees (the equivalent of canine nuclear families -- sire, dam, littermates) and extended families, as well as numerous unrelated dogs for a case/control sample. So we would love to sample all of your dogs. What we need for each dog are: (1) DNA sample, (2) copy of pedigree, and (3) completed behavioral questionnaire. I can send the questionnaires to you ahead of time so you can bring them with you, which is a better option for us than the other (that I hand out questionnaires to owners at the time of sampling and wait for the questionnaires to come back). If you can bring copies of pedigrees that is awesome. You can drop me an email and let me know where to send everything. I can also send out a kit with collection tubes and shipping materials (including prepaid FedEx return) for Jill and Farleigh since for SOME REASON you are not bring ALL OF THE RED DOGS to the Finals. If I were bringing Solo with me, we could recreate the "are they Border Collies or are they Memorex?" photos from Steppingstone: Ideally, I would have all handlers "pre-register" to participate in the project at the Finals, as you are basically offering to do. I was planning to send an email to Sheepdog-L to this effect, but I have doubts about how much response we'll get ahead of time. This is one arena where the dog fancy folks are often much easier to deal with; I now know that the reason practically every genetic study out there uses exclusively show dogs is that those communities are much more likely to participate in studies without as much recruitment effort. I really, really want our Border Collie sample to represent the breed, which is why I'm going after the dogs I consider "mine" but it's a lot more work this way. Anyway, just email me or PM me and I'll send the stuff out to you -- and that also goes for any other handlers who are interested! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.