Bacchus Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 My six-month-old border collie just went in to get spayed and they did some blood work prior to the surgery. The Dr. said she was anemic. He blamed it on her diet. I've been feeding her Orijen Adult for about two months. Here's the nutrition info: http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/products/adult.aspx He said I should switch her to puppy food. He had never heard of Orijen before, and I've told him about it at least four times over the last two months, telling him that I'd been feeding it to my dog. He has never looked it up and still tells me to put her on a puppy food that petsmart sells (the only choices being Royal Canin, Pedigree, Eukanuba, etc...), and that they are better than what I'm feeding her. He's not even telling me why? What a prick. Should I switch her to a premium puppy food, or stay with what I have? Also, is my vet a dumb-ass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pax Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Also, is my vet a dumb-ass? Well that was good for a laugh, thanks. I'll let the people who know more than me answer you, though. ETA: I wonder why he decided it had to be diet related? I think I'd want to nail down there wasn't anything else going on before I settled in for a long hard slog of changing diets around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosanne Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Also, is my vet a dumb-ass? Yes. Orijen is MUCH better than just about anything you can get at Petsmart (they have a few good foods, but Orijen is good stuff). It sounds like there might be an underlying problem other than the food. There's no reason to keep a 6-month old on puppy food either. All of mine go off puppy food by 4-5 months at the lastest. And I've never had an issue. What about water intake, amounts of exercise, thyroid, etc? But Kudos for spaying her, feeding good food, and doing bloodwork! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I have no clue about the anemia, but I would not switch from Orijen to any of that other junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Yes.Orijen is MUCH better than just about anything you can get at Petsmart (they have a few good foods, but Orijen is good stuff). It sounds like there might be an underlying problem other than the food. There's no reason to keep a 6-month old on puppy food either. All of mine go off puppy food by 4-5 months at the lastest. And I've never had an issue. What about water intake, amounts of exercise, thyroid, etc? But Kudos for spaying her, feeding good food, and doing bloodwork! I don't know if calling a person who has gone through all kinds of training in order to be a professional a dumbass is necessarily in order. However, your vet could very well be mistaken on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosanne Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 One can be educated, and still be a dumb-ass about some things. I didn't say he was a bad vet, but you shouldn't put down a food if you didn't even look at the ingredients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Well anyone who would suggest Eukanuba over Orijen could be considered a nutrition dumb-ass. But that's just my opinion. Also, I just like the phrase dumb-ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacchus Posted August 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I love you guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I would say "grossly misguided" would be a better phrase to utilize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosanne Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Too many syllables. And he's not misguided, he's ignorant. And possibly arrogant, but I don't know the man so I can't say. If he was really interested in making pet food recommendations to his clients, he should do some serious research on nutrition. Look at all those vets who recommend Science Diet - they are actually paid to do that, that's so Science Diet can say they are the #1 recommended brand by vets. Most vets have very little training in school dealing with canine nutrition, and I believe most times the only class/es they get are sponsored by pet food companies, so they probably focus more on chemicals/processes/vitamins rather than making sure that the ingredient list starts with Chicken rather than Meat By-product Meal. Orijen is a top-tier food. If the dog is anemic eating that, then it is probably not the diet. Unless the dog has some kind of allergy to an ingredient, which of course is much less common with foods with simple ingredient lists like Orijen, than it is with foods containing fractions/leftovers like Eukanuba. And, like someone said, Dumb-ass is fun to say. It's a matter of opinion anyway. You may feel it's unfounded, but I feel that nutrition is one of the most important preventative lifestyle changes you can make for your dog, and I feel that it's disgraceful for a vet to tell someone a food is bad when they don't even know what's in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I would be concerned if my vet didn't look for some other cause for the anemia than the food. I'm not a vet, obviously, but this is the first I've heard of any standard dog food, good or bad, *causing* anemia. Did the vet suggest any additional testing? There are a number of problems that can cause anemia, and I think I'd be insisting to my vet that we start looking for some of them. Has she been tested for tick-borne diseases? Has she been tested for intestinal parasites? Heck, even flea overload can cause anemia in small dogs. Actually, I don't think I'd be insisting with this vet--I think I'd be looking for a second opinion (i.e., visiting another vet). FWIW, I don't expect my vet(s) to be an expert nutritionist, but I too find it disturbing that a vet would blame a product s/he's done no research on. It boggles the mind. The vets at the best vet practice I ever went to (until I moved hours away, unfortunately) were always willing to research my concerns and even ask questions on vet-only forums if they couldn't come up with a satisfactory answer. In a busy practice that means you might have to wait a day or two for the answer, but I would have been truly astounded to have had one of those vets insist on something without evidence to back it up. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I would be concerned if my vet didn't look for some other cause for the anemia than the food. I'm not a vet, obviously, but this is the first I've heard of any standard dog food, good or bad, *causing* anemia. Did the vet suggest any additional testing? There are a number of problems that can cause anemia, and I think I'd be insisting to my vet that we start looking for some of them. Has she been tested for tick-borne diseases? Has she been tested for intestinal parasites? Heck, even flea overload can cause anemia in small dogs. Actually, I don't think I'd be insisting with this vet--I think I'd be looking for a second opinion (i.e., visiting another vet). Excellent, excellent point (as usual), Julie. Dumb-assedness aside, this is key, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Too many syllables. And he's not misguided, he's ignorant. And possibly arrogant, but I don't know the man so I can't say. If he was really interested in making pet food recommendations to his clients, he should do some serious research on nutrition. Look at all those vets who recommend Science Diet - they are actually paid to do that, that's so Science Diet can say they are the #1 recommended brand by vets. Most vets have very little training in school dealing with canine nutrition, and I believe most times the only class/es they get are sponsored by pet food companies, so they probably focus more on chemicals/processes/vitamins rather than making sure that the ingredient list starts with Chicken rather than Meat By-product Meal. Orijen is a top-tier food. If the dog is anemic eating that, then it is probably not the diet. Unless the dog has some kind of allergy to an ingredient, which of course is much less common with foods with simple ingredient lists like Orijen, than it is with foods containing fractions/leftovers like Eukanuba. And, like someone said, Dumb-ass is fun to say. It's a matter of opinion anyway. You may feel it's unfounded, but I feel that nutrition is one of the most important preventative lifestyle changes you can make for your dog, and I feel that it's disgraceful for a vet to tell someone a food is bad when they don't even know what's in it. Did I ever say I disagreed with his advice being incorrect? I just was suggesting a more diplomatic term may be used. Maybe, tool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 There are lot of causes for anemia, and any commercial food is rarely it. In fact, if food was going to cause anemia, it would have to really low in red meat usually - which orijen isn't. Can you post her bloodwork? Some vets are on the list, and a few others that can read labs well too. The kind of anemia could point to clues you could ask you vet about following up on. When I've seen anemic dogs in the past it was from trauma, cancer, poisening, and parasites. If this is a pup, I would be first and foremost worried about parasites, and then having injested something like rat poison. And dumba**, well it fits for any vet who would spay a dog who had labwork indicating anemia. Why did he do this????? If she was truly anemic the last thing she needed was surgery. So either anemia is very mild and he's making a mountain out of molehill for some personal reason, or he's done elective surgery on a dog with anemia....incompetent is the word that comes to mind. Either way...he isn't coming out intelligent here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I took my male in to be spayed(edited to say neuter rather than spay). He turned out to be anemic too. We didn't find this out till about a week after the surgery when he had a seizure and we did blood work then (a different vet) He came back anemic and a high white count. No explanation except to feed him some liver to up his iron. I did, and it didn't help. Skip a few months and 3 vets later someone thought to do a TBD test. He had 2 TBD's. The neuter surgery compromised him enough to send him into a seizure. If blood work comes back questionable I have learned the hard way to figure out what are the underlying issues before letting anything I might do to them to compromised them more. And to be my dogs best advocate because like doctors, vets aren't dumba**es but things can be missed and I know and owe my dog the best. Good luck Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 The first thing I would do is change vets. Any vet that won't listen to me is not worth my patronage and I wouldn't trust my dog/cat's health in their hands. The second thing I would do is ask the new vet to check for tick borne disease. If that comes back clear, ask them to do a complete bloodwork. They might come up with something different. All vets go to school but not all vets are created equal. Some vets are better than others. Keep shopping around until you find one you feel comfortable with....one that takes you seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millie&MeBC Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Well, the things he said were certainly dumbass-worthy. He obviously has not a clue about nutrition. Did he even bother to ask more about it or about the ingredients? Orijen is one of the best dog foods out there IMO. Keep feeding it if your dog is doing well on it. By about 2 months on a new food you should be seeing how well it's working for her. About the anemia, he certainly didn't put much thought into it, now, did he? Is there another vet you would consider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 All vets go to school but not all vets are created equal. Some vets are better than others. Keep shopping around until you find one you feel comfortable with....one that takes you seriously. This reminds me of a joke i always trot out when this sort of situation presents itself. Question: What do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of his/her medical school class? Answer: Doctor Same goes for vets. This one does sound like a dumbass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Love it! Thank you, Robin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 I agree with everyone else. Coming from someone who FEEDS Orijen, I am stunned. I have done the research and can tell you Orijen is MUCH better quality then anything they would offer at Petsmart. Morons like him are part of the reason so many dogs are fed absolute crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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