splitting frontline pipettes

[donna frankland (uk)]

i know some of you guys do this, but i cant find the posts.

i have a whole packet of the 20kg to 40kg pipettes that i bought for tikki, but am unwilling to use on him now, however if someone could let me have the dosage per kg info (or a linky to such) i figure i can split the pipettes up and not need to waste them

also is the frontline for dogs the same as the frontline for cats? if it is, is it the same dosage per kg?

if anyone could let me know i would be very greatful;)

thankies

[SoloRiver]

I split Frontline doses for my dogs. If you look at the packaging, the dosage range is pretty huge (the ones I get are 89 to 132 lbs) so I really, really don't think you need to be very precise -- at all -- when administering. I just eyeball it myself -- Solo gets about half, Fly gets about half. When I had Skeeter, I just left a little over and used it on him. This worked fine for us.

 

I do believe that once the pipettes are opened, they need to be used immediately and cannot be stored, but I am not sure about that.

 

I don't know if it's the same product for cats. I would tend to think not. Your vet would probably know.

[donna frankland (uk)]

thanks hun, very helpful

[Sue R]

I "think" Frontline for dogs and Frontline for cats are different. I would think the packaging would tell you if it can or can't be used on cats, and I'm pretty sure it can't be (but as I am not at home, I can't check my packaging).

 

I use a syringe to draw the correct dosage out (you have to do this carefully, holding the package on its side and inserting the needle in a position that you won't spill the contents of the package and yet can get the last little bit out when you need it).

 

I draw off for all three dogs from the largest size. It is just right for their combined poundage and, living where we do where fleas and ticks are not generally an issue, that works for us. When I had another dog and needed to use two packages to cover my dogs, I just drew up the remainder into the syringe, expelled any air, capped it, and stored it away from light and air. It seemed just as effective after being stored as when fresh.

 

This certainly saves me lots of money but I wonder if the manufacturer/distributors are catching on. I used to get the largest dose for only about $2 more than the typical Border Collie-sized dose. Now the price difference is quite a bit more. The older prices showed that the cost was not terribly related to the amount of product in the packaging but perhaps more to the packaging and distribution/handling.

 

Best wishes!

[Guest SweetJordan]

Made a post in the wrong place. Sorry!

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

I do this, too. I actually squirt the packages into a cup and use a syringe to get the correct dosage for each dog. It's SOO much cheaper and with this many dogs, cheaper IS better.

[juliepoudrier]

Donna,

I used to buy the largest size Frontline and split it between three average size border collies (35-40 pounds). The dose for the 35-40 pound (the box says 23-44 pounds or 10-20 kg) dog is 1.34 mL. A vial of the largest size Frontline contains 4.02 mL (89-132 lbs, 40-60 kg), so has exactly 3 times the amount of product as the size appropriate for 23-44 pound dog. If your dogs are larger or smaller than that 23-44 pound range, then you can do like Melanie does and just eyeball it. Because all my dogs are fairly close in weight, when I used Frontline, I would draw an exact amount out by sticking a needle through the back foil part of the vial and drawing out 1.34 mL with a syringe. I then removed the needle from the syringe and used the syringe to apply the product to the dog. Then put the needle back on and draw out the amount needed for the next dog.

 

J.

[mbernard2424]

FYI I've seen on a couple of lists I'm on reports of dogs who have been treated with Frontline having seizures. Also reports of the product causing burning once applied.

[juliepoudrier]

I've been warned by someone I respect very much about Advantix causing reactions in dogs as well (when I switched from Frontline to Advantix) because she had a bad experience with her dog(s), but I have not had any adverse reactions with either product with any of my dogs (or cats), and I've been using one or the other ever since they arrived on the market. I think like most chemicals/drugs, there will be individuals who cannot tolerate the ingredients, but I don't think its a blanket issue for dogs (or cats) as a whole.

 

J.

[Daviid]

Now I'm am old fart, been around a long time, never used all this chemical stuff on my dogs.

They eat a great diet (homemade ) get brushed daily and quick check for ticks at night.

Haven't had a flea in over 20 years. - few ticks in the spring.

 

Are people just to lazy to do this anymore? drugs and chemicals for too many things.

I've been told you're suppose to wash your hands after putting this stuff on your dogs - AFTER this is ABSORBED in the dogs system? - doesn't sound too safe to me?

 

Attempting to get rid of our dogs fleas by utilizing chemicals that are toxic to the brain & nervous system, they may disrupt hormone (endocrine) systems and cause cancer.

 

I'll stick with the old fashioned way-

 

Every night the dogs line up for a brushing and tick check, they get a hug and a cookie.

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

Unfortunately, even daily grooming and a good diet cannot prevent fleas in some parts of the world.

 

But thanks for insulting us all by assuming we don't groom our dogs or feed them good food.

[donna frankland (uk)]

see, the horrible situation i am in is i agree with you. but i cannot get rid of the little blighters. it seems the cats are the ones bringing the damn things in. brighid never gets them, squirrel gets a few but poor tikki is a magnet and reacts terribly to them

ticks arent the problem for me its the bloody fleas. but please please please if you have another method of getting rid of them trust me i am ALL ears!

i have held out for the 2 years since tikki was diagnosed, and would gladly chuck the stuff in the bin!

in fact, bugger it. the stuff is going in the bin anyway. perhaps weekly baths and the daily grooming and de powder and any suggestions you can think of will allow me to win. at least winter is coming up, that should help too

i hate chemicals and have been holding off for this very reason. any suggestion would be very much appreciated, thanks

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

I didn't use any chemicals for fleas for over a year until this summer...but they are so bad here this year that even chemicals aren't stopping them half of the time.

[MaryP]

Actually, Frontline is not absorbed into the system. It is spread by the oils on the skin and stored in the sub-q glands. It is not absorbed into the dog's bloodstream, as many people think. Also, as Debbie said, in many parts of the world (i.e., the south where we live), no amount of brushing or feeding good food is going to prevent fleas. Though I do agree with you that brushing can definitely help to reduce them by removing many of the eggs from the dog's body.

[juliepoudrier]

Donna,

People report that human food-grade diatomaceous earth (DE) can help control fleas. You can use it on your dogs and on the carpets/floors/furniture in your house. I think I would wear a dust mask when applying it, though, as breathing those small particles in probably isn't good for your lungs.

 

If you don't know, DE is made from diatoms, which are tiny little silicaceous sea "creatures." DE works by "scratching" the chitin on the body of fleas, which causes them to dehydrate (simplistic explantion). But it is a non-chemical, natural product.

 

Daviid,

I have to agree with Debbie (RuffMuttGang): Insulting the rest of us by implying laziness is just laughable. Where do you live anyway? (No, I'm not coming to hunt you down and hurt you for your rudeness here; I'm just curious if where you live might explain to some extent your lack of issues with fleas.)

 

J.

[donna frankland (uk)]

is de powder safe tou use around fish tanks?

i kind of assume it would be, but i thought i best check

thankies hun!

[G. Festerling]

In the old days when I had carpet I used boric acid in the house. As long as I did not steamclean it it lasted for a long time. It is safe.

That way I had no other environment for the buggers to hide once the cats and dogs came in the house. Then I just used absolute minimum on the dogs. Although I live in TX I have been pretty lucky really.

[Daviid]

Now, I don't frequent message boards too often, home with recovering from an injury. So, I don't know message board etiquette? I do think people are lazy and want quick fixes in life in general, this is a general statement. And this is a message board, I was stating mine. I don't know any of you to put you down. I don't like chemicals and another gentler approach works, which for us does, I'd like to pass it along, something wrong with that. I think we're a bit brain washed into thinking that's the only way to go, especially with those wonderful TV commercials with cute puppies advertising harsh chemicals.

 

We've been using garlic (quarter clove a day) in a homemade diet since the early 80's. --yes over 25 years of using garlic with many dogs-- My wife makes a batch of food for the month, freezes and adds some fresh herbs, garlic, parsley...not sure what else. Have had GREAT success with diet and garlic and just checking the dogs regularly. We noticed a change in the dogs after 2 weeks of this diet and never tried anything else. ( Garlic is good, in small quantities. ) Friends, neighbors report they get fleas - - Most of them have their dogs on topical chemicals.

 

We also use Rose Geranium oil -- can get at health food store-- We rub a few drops on the dogs every few days when out in the fields. I use it myself for nasty biting flies and gnats, I rub it on my ears and arms. I also use to eat a whole raw piece of garlic a day, but now my wife won't let me.

 

We had a dog flown to us years ago, breeder said she had an on and off again problem with fleas. Sure enough the puppy arrived with fleas. We gave a flea bath ( not a dip, everyone was dipping dogs in the 80's ) We physically checked this puppy several times a day and squished the fleas, we vacuumed the whole house twice a day and all beds, had flea collar in vacuum cleaner. We kept this exhausting vigil up every day and finally after a few weeks, no fleas. -- my wife did most of the work-- That was last time we had a flea and that was 1988! We got lucky, it was in the fall and we had a frost, so no fleas to worry about outside. We worked hard to rid them naturally as possible.

 

 

Why is it so hard to believe chemicals is the only way to go?

[urge to herd]

Donna, and anyone who is interested, go to www.askthebugman.com and follow the links to Diatomaceous Earth, or it may be DE. It gives instructions about how to use the stuff. We do use masks when applying, the dogs are outside and the cats are in another room with the door closed when we spread it, I would cover fish tanks if we had them, but as soon as the DE is in the carpet, it's safe to let the critters in.

 

We're lucky here in N. CA, we had a very cold winter and have not been bothered much by fleas at all. We haven't dusted this summer, and the fleas just aren't here.

 

The ticks, now, we had a ton of ticks in the spring. Nasty things. I don't like killing anything, even insects, even spiders and wasps, but I squished them ugly gray things with glee. Yuck.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[mbernard2424]

I've not seen any fleas on the dogs or cats, but ticks have been bad on the dogs. I spend time each night picking them off the dogs. I take great pleasure in depositing the rotten blood-sucking creatures into a jar in my freezer.

[mbernard2424]

Here is an interesting article on the toxins in flea and tick products.

 

http://www.apnm.org/publications/resources/fleachemfin.pdf

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

Why is it so hard to believe chemicals is the only way to go?

 

No one said chemicals are the only way to go. I have used natural methods of pest prevention for the better part of the last 3 years. But this year it's different, especially in Texas. I am not sure where you live, Daviid, but in some parts of the world it doesn't matter what you use, be it chemicals or natural methods, fleas WILL get into your home. I, like you, have not had a flea or tick problem in years and it IS frustrating that I've had to resort to chemicals this year. I run a rescue and almost every dog that comes in here has fleas and/or ticks. A good bathing cures that problem pretty quickly but having so many (unhealthy) dogs coming in constantly makes this place a haven for pests like fleas and ticks. If I didn't treat the dogs with products such as Frontline or Advantix, there is absolutely no way my house would stay pest free. Now, if it were only my own personal dogs here, the story would be different because there would be no other dogs to bring the pests into the yard in the first place. I do sprinkle the entire yard with cedar shavings every few weeks and use an herbal spray on the dog beds and in crates. Before I started taking in a lot of foster dogs, this was all I needed to do to prevent fleas. But now I would like to prevent them from ever becoming a problem so I've resorted to monthly flea products on top of the other natural remedies which I am still using as well. Knock on wood...I've never had a flea issue to date.

[juliepoudrier]

Natural products are chemicals too. I remember reading a few years ago a study that indicated that the phenolic compounds released by cedar shavings (what's more natural than cedar?) could cause skin problems (IIRC) in dogs. I stopped using cedar-filled beds and stopped putting cedar shavings in my dog houses. That same study raised the possibility of pine shavings causing a similar, though lesser, problem. Rose geranium oil is a chemical. Some essential oils, natural as they may be, are toxic to cats. Pyrethrums come from chrysanthemums--what's more natural than a flower? My point being that one should be careful when claiming that "natural" is better than "chemical." Natural compounds are chemicals.

 

The only non-chemical method for flea and tick control is to use a flea comb (soaps, etc. are chemicals, so bathing would be out too) and check for and remove ticks religously. That may work well with few animals and in areas where fleas and ticks aren't terribly abundant. But having seen the other side--that is, the nastiness of tick-borne diseases and the misery of flea allergy--and the fact that I live in a part of the country that is rife with fleas and ticks, I'll assess the risks vs. benefits of so-called chemical treatments and do what I think is best for my pets' health. That's all any of us can do.

 

Judgmentalism is not a pretty thing.

 

J.

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

Thanks Julie. You're very right about the natural vs. chemical thing. I should have thought of that argument myself having a degree in chemistry. Oh well...someday all of that time and money spent to get that piece of paper will pay off.

[Pipedream Farm]

Oh please, most everything is a chemical and/or mixture of chemicals (even you and I); some are natural products while others are synthetic. Hell, even aspirin (which is found in several plants) is now produced from petro-chemicals. Pure acetyl salicylic acid is the same no matter if it comes from plants or coal tar. Unless you are prepared to chew on bark you raise organically and harvest to get your acetyl salicylic acid, you run the risk of exposure to synthetic chemicals used in extracting the acetyl salicylic acid from natural sources or in the synthetic preparation of aspirin.

 

We split frontline for our dogs. It takes 3 of the large packages (89-132lbs) to treat all our dogs. I've noticed that Merial typically has an overfill of each package to ensure each package has at least the volume on the label in every package they sell. We then treat each of our dogs based upon that dog's approximate weight. If I remember correctly there is 4.02 mL in the 89-132lb packages; based upon this the minimum dose is 0.03 mL/lb.

 

Mark