Instuctor

[gypsy84]

I'm interested in taking a couple herding lessons with Gypsy to see what it's like. Does anyone know any instructors around the Winnipeg, Manitoba area? I googled "herding lessons" and came up with only one result. Does this seem like a good place? It's only about 15 minutes away, and I emailed them asking for more information. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.

[kelpiegirl]

Here's a list of breeders/trainers etc in canada- perhaps something there? I don't know canadian geography well, I'm afraid!

 

http://www.canadianbordercollies.org/breeders.html

 

I'm interested in taking a couple herding lessons with Gypsy to see what it's like. Does anyone know any instructors around the Winnipeg, Manitoba area? I googled "herding lessons" and came up with only one result. Does this seem like a good place? It's only about 15 minutes away, and I emailed them asking for more information. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.

[gypsy84]

Thanks for that resource. There were 3 listed in Manitoba, but all were 2+ hours away from me. Being in university limits the time and money that I'd be able to spend on something like this, and gas would just be too much to get to any of those places for lessons Hopefully the one that's close to me turns out to be alright.

[juliepoudrier]

A quick look at the website makes me think they're involved with AKC.

 

J.

[Rosanne]

http://www.littlehats.net/core.html

 

There's a bunch of nice articles and stuff there, and they have a list of instructors by region, BUT they don't have many in Canada listed, and I'll admit I have NO idea where Winnipeg really is!

 

The website of that place makes it seem like sort an all-around instruction place. Might not be a bad spot to start out, depending on who's teaching, I guess, but most people here will tell you if you get at all hooked or have any plans to keep going with it, you will want a good, BC-familiar instructor. Hopefully someone else here will know somebody!

 

(I bet a regular working-BC type will be cheaper on your wallet too!)

[kelpiegirl]

I used to think the travel time was a big hurdle, and it can be, why don't you head out to one of those places and see what happens? It would be good if you could go to someone really good for her first time, and if she shows promise, go as you can afford

Julie

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Rosanne makes a good point. Many times those alternative breed trainers are much more expensive, so what you'd save on gas you'd spend on instruction. Plus, factor in that it can take a trainer who is not as experienced, four to TEN times as long to trouble shoot problems on your dog, as it would one of those people two hours away, if they have more experience with working dogs than your average title trial trainer. That's well worth a little more gas money, in the long run!

 

Also remember the internet is far from the be all end all for Border Collies. I'd call those people listed and see what they say.

[Sue R]

I second Julie's feelings that this place is kennel club-oriented from the sounds of things and from looking at the scrolling pictures.

 

Less time with a better, more appropriate instructor is worth more than more time with a less good, less qualified instructor. Confusing, huh?

 

Making mistakes in the beginning, with the foundation of your training, is much harder to overcome, I believe. Invest the time, money, and mileage in the best instruction you can find even if you have to make do with less instruction.

 

The dogs learn and retain when they are taught properly. I've been to a couple of Jack Knox clinics where some dogs only see stock twice a year at the clinic. They don't forget what they learned properly at the last clinic and so make progress and have a sure foundation.

 

In my opinion, you are better off with this approach rather than perhaps settling for a lower standard of instruction.

 

Best wishes!

[gypsy84]

Ok, I finally got a reply back from this woman. She said she is CKC and ASCA associated.

 

Here is our correspondance.

 

Hi Faye,

 

My name is Lisa and I have a 9 1/2 month old border collie. My fiance and I adopted her from D'arcy's ARC when she was 9 weeks old. We are very interested in herding lessons, and just wanted to get a bit more information. All three of us are complete beginners but are willing to learn. Also, how much do the lessons cost and how long are they?

 

Thanks!

Lisa, Nick & Gypsy

 

-------------------------------------

 

Hi there I was cleaning up my email and noticed that I didn't respond to this email. Herding classes are wed and Thursday night cost is 4 weeks for $75 talk to you soon

 

-------------------------------------

 

I had almost forgotten about sending this email

 

Are the lessons done in a group or private format? Also, which group (if any) are you affiliated with? And could you explain a bit more about what is basically taught in the beginner lessons? I'm really interested in learning as much as I can.

 

Thanks,

Lisa!

 

--------------------------------------

 

The lessons are one dog in the ring at a time, usually a few dogs share the hour depending on the night. You start by seeing what the dog has for natural ability and then you start training the

Call off the stock and start to get the dog to listen and move in

The direction that you want. What you work on depends on the dog. Everyone is different. I have another beginning dog coming

On wed if you would like to join them.

 

---------------------------------------

 

Thank you for the quick reply!

 

One last question, are you AKC affiliated? And if not, are you associated with any other comparable group?

 

---------------------------------------

 

Not sure what that has to do with herding classes, I am with CKC

And ASCA. We just hosted the first CKC herding trial here in manitoba.

 

 

Now here's my question(s).

 

How does the CKC compare with the AKC? And what is the ASCA? If the CKC is in the same league as the AKC would it be worth it to just go to this place and try Gypsy on stock to see if she has any interest at all, or should I keep looking for a different (more qualified) trainer, even if it means traveling, before seeing if Gyp can differentiate a sheep from a coffee table?

 

That's all I can think of for now, but I will check back later if I have anything to add!

[Laurae]

Sounds like you have to buy four lessons right from the get go. I've NEVER heard of anyone doing that, it sounds like she's trying to run lessons like it's a class. Also, though she tried to sound innocent ("not sure what that has to do with herding classes"), she knows full well what you're asking and is being defensive about it, imo.

 

I'd skip it.

[bcnewe2]

Also, though she tried to sound innocent ("not sure what that has to do with herding classes"), she knows full well what you're asking and is being defensive about it, imo.

 

And if she doesn't she should if she's giving lessons!

 

2 hours is nothing in dog driving time. You might find someone in your area if you go and meet the people 2 hrs away by networking once you get there. Some people don't put their info on the web. It's word of mouth and those that are in the know, know who's around too!

 

Good luck in your search

Kristen

[juliepoudrier]

CKC is the Canadian equivalent of the AKC. ASCA is the Australian Shepherd Club of America (I think that's the correct name). They have their own trial venue, geared toward Aussies, of course. I think I'd skip her. If she'd let you come out once, for a one-time fee just to see what Gypsy would do, that would be okay, but I don't think I'd count on her to be the best choice of trainer for my dog.

 

Holding the first CKC trial means that she's involved in the types of trials espoused by the AKC, if we assume (and I think it's a fairly safe assumption) that the CKC would set up a trial and titling system in Canada similar to that of the AKC here.

 

Here's a website from British Columbia that has an explanation of the CKC herding program, as well as of ASCA, AHBA, and AKC. Grouping those together should tell you all you need to know, but just in case you're wondering what CKC herding trials entail, the explanation is here.

 

J.

[stockdogranch]

Julie, thanks for the link. Gah! Even their course names, etc. are the same as AKC. This is NOT someplace that would be good to start. As Julie poiints out, if she would have a one time "instinct test" with fee, MAYBE. But with the mandatory 4 lessons, your best move would be to seek out a true BC trainer, even if it IS a long drive,

A

[airbear]

Gah! Even their course names, etc. are the same as AKC.

Yes, and as of June of this year, border collies can compete in the CKC "herding" program, as well as all the other 'programs' (including conformation). Yup, just wait for it, here come the "can do it all" border collies with titles on the front and back!

[stockdogranch]

Deja vu

A

[gypsy84]

I will email her now and see if there's any chance of doing an initial instinct test. I remember a while ago someone posted about how their young dog had to develop their interest in stock over a series of lessons, but I think it'd be nice just to introduce her to sheep and see if she shows interest.

 

Once again the expert knowledge from the Boards has been a great help! Thanks all.

[jomur]

Lisa

 

I'm a Canadian and I know where Winnipeg is.There is only one USBCHA member from MB and he is in Lenore--Ed Hunter Phone 204-838-8174.I don't know him but he may know some other handlers in MB.

 

As for CKC and Border Collies ,I suggest you read the item on the Canadian Border Collie association web site at http://www.canadianbordercollies.org/cbcanews.htm It will explain what the controversy is all about.As well ,the Canadian Championships are being held this weekend in Saskatchewan,if you could make the trip there.See details also on the CBCA web site.

 

Good luck.

Jim Murphy

[Aquarius89]

Hi Lisa!

 

My name is Jessica and I am from Winnipeg as well. Faye at 4 U Farms is AWESOME.

 

I brought my BC out there. The first time you go, it is $20 for an hour. She assesses your dog for instinct, and watches for it's methods. THEN she would arrange lessons for you.

 

My friend goes out from time to time and just pays $20 an hour. I've done the same once, and am planning on going again soon with my BC and one of my foster pups.

 

I strongly encourage you to go to her! She's a very nice person, too! I foster for Hull's Haven BCR and she actually adopted one of the dogs that we brought up from Wisconsin and he is a kick butt herding dog!

[1sheepdoggal]

Hello Lisa, Have you checked into herding clubs? I have found them to be very useful and in the ones that I have been affiliated with, put on work days around the state so that the distances are not to far every time for everyone. Most of the time, there are very good folks involved in the clubs and you can get some very good instruction from very knowledgable folk for the fraction of the cost of lessons with an instructor.( not dissing instructors or their costs mind you) Yearly dues, and very inexpensive work days to attend as well, and you can check out the clubs to see what their goals/ venues are in so far as AKC, CKC, ASCA, USBCHA traditional herding, etc. Dont know if they have any out there, although I would think they would, but it may be worth a look. Also, ya get the added benifit of working your dog in different feilds and arenas, as well as working different sheep, and different types of sheep most every time too. Good luck.

[kelpiegirl]

To me, a BC competing (now I am not talking show bred) in kennel club herding events, is rather like asking Bach to play chopsticks on the piano, or asking me, a Biologist to write out the chemical name for water.

 

Yes, and as of June of this year, border collies can compete in the CKC "herding" program, as well as all the other 'programs' (including conformation). Yup, just wait for it, here come the "can do it all" border collies with titles on the front and back!