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I also posted this on the BCR board, but I was hoping some folks here might have some helpful advice. Last Saturday, I got a new foster from GA. He is a 7.5 month old ABCA registered border collie that was an owner surrender. He and his mother were given up supposedly because the owners were moving and couldn't take the dogs. Who knows if that's the truth? Anyway, from what I was told, Owen pretty much just lived in the backyard with his mother 24/7, which I believe since he is not house trained. Owen is a bit neurotic, understandably. He's also quite overweight, which floored me, since I thought it would be pretty difficult for a puppy to become overweight. Owen is OBSESSED with herding the other dogs. He has not shown any interest in toys and won't chase after a toy, ball, rolled frisbee, etc.

 

I'm really struggling with how to deal with Owen right now. He is sooo obsessed with herding the other dogs. It wouldn't be so bad, but he is too rough with them. Last night, I took my bc, Charlie, and Owen to a park with some big fields where I knew I wouldn't run into any other people. Owen needs to get some exercise and I figured with just Charlie and Owen, I could work on trying to teach Owen some self control. I did let Owen chase Charlie a little bit so that he could work off some energy, but after colliding with Charlie several times, I decided that I couldn't risk having him injure Charlie. Even though Charlie is probably a good 3-4 inches taller than Owen, Owen probably weighs at least 10 pounds more than him.

 

I took my clicker and Owen's dinner with me and had every intention of rewarding him for not breaking from a down when I tossed the frisbee for Charlie. Well, Owen, who loves his food, was not at all interested in focusing on me or in taking food rewards. He was solely interested in Charlie - couldn't take his eyes off of him. He also broke his collar in an attempt to go after Charlie. The good thing is that when he broke his collar, I yelled at him to "down" and he did and stayed there until I could go get him. I did try to put a harness on him before we went to the fields, but I don't have any harnesses that fit a dog his size. :rolleyes: I guess I have to go buy yet another harness for "big boys."

 

Help!! I don't know what to do. Would it be better to take Owen to the field all by himself and work on basic obedience, first? I REALLY wish that I could get Owen interested in a ball or a frisbee but his sole obsession is with the other dogs. I'm wondering if he had any toys to play with at the home he was in because he really doesn't show much interest in toys at all. I figured that most puppies, especially bc puppies, would be interested in chasing a ball or a rolled frisbee. :D I've read advice about how to get a dog interested in toys, but with five dogs in the house, that would be pretty difficult to do (i.e., hide the toy and then bring it out and act all excited, then put it away, repeat as necessary to spark the dog's interest).

 

Besides wanting him to become interested in chasing something other than dogs, I need something that will get Owen running around to get some exercise. After my experience last night, though, I realized that it is too risky to let him chase the other dogs because he could really hurt them. But, that seems to be the only thing that makes him want to run. I thought about taking him on leash on my bike, but I'm afraid he might yank me off my bike and kill me. :D

 

Help!!

 

Here are a couple photos of Owen. You can see just how BIG of a "puppy" he really is.

 

owen2.jpg

owen5.jpg

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You read my mind, Mary. I was going to suggest posting this here.

 

The only thing I can think of is taking him out to the field by himself. He's not going to become interested in balls or frisbees if another dog is around. Then, maybe once he gets the hang of it, you can start bringing another dog and see how that goes. Good luck!

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This dog needs a lot of one on one attention so that he can learn to listen to people and play. Once he starts understanding what you want, you will probably be able to start teaching him to play (again no dogs). I would work first on getting him to listen and play before worrying too much about the weight. Once he starts doing things in general the weight wil come off plus a diet would help.

 

Poor guy - he looks sweet as can be....

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I would work first on getting him to listen and play before worrying too much about the weight. Once he starts doing things in general the weight wil come off plus a diet would help.

 

One-on-one work is probably a good idea.

 

I'm not necessarily wanting to exercise him because of the weight, though he does need to lose it. But, he has A LOT of energy to burn and he needs to get rid of that energy some how. And he is, much to his chagrin, on a diet. :rolleyes:

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I agree with the others - I'd seperate him from the other dogs for a while. I might would even go so far as to even potty him seperate from the other dogs. He could use the decompression time, and the opportunity to bond with you and see a human as the most interesting thing ever - and one he can trust. The dog bonding thing can come later - I think he needs some human bonding right now. You may not be able to get him interested in a toy *yet* - you may have to get him interested in you first. I would make myself the center of his universe for a while - because all he's had to focus on was another dog. Long leash walks for exercise... that sort of thing. As he relaxes the opportunity to get the weight off will come.

 

He's adorable, even if somewhat... er... robust. :rolleyes:

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It sounds to me that he has become bonded to dogs more than people- which happens when you leave dogs together 24/7. He knows dogs, knows they are fun, and basically is putting all that affinity for them and his drive to herd something, together. He needs time without dogs, NO dogs. Just you. You and he go to the park, you and he hang out outside you and he do everything together. Don't let him free play with dogs for now- you and other good people be his world. He won't forget his affinity for dogs, but he can grow if you teach him that people are JUST as fun- even more.

Think of it as BC boot camp :rolleyes:

Julie

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I'm no dog expert, but my experience when we got Daisy two years ago was kind of similar. She'd been sitting on her butt in a pen for a long time, and she didn't know how to play with toys and didn't play fetch (which is unbelievable to anyone who knows her now). The first step was that she became bonded to my DH and me. The second step was parallel play with another BC and another owner, who was throwing the ball for his dog Riley. Daisy was all about chasing Riley, who was all about chasing his ball. It began to rub off on Daisy, and soon she began chasing the ball too. When we had tried to teach her to fetch on her own, she hadn't understood why it could be interesting and hadn't bought into the idea at all. Now she loves to play with frisbees and balls, and it is really easy to get her some good exercise.

 

[The way I wrote that it sounds like we had a plan. Noooo, just kind of evolved!]

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I had a bitch who was about three and dog-obsessed. She was also terrified of people. Wonderful combination. she wasn't overweight, thankfully, so I didn't have to worry about how much exercise she was actually getting. Her name was Holly. Jolly Holly the Border Collie. She was extremely active and HAD to get into a sport home, so very literally her life depended on my finding a way to turn off the dog-obsession.

 

I had a three pronged plan to get her refocused:

  1. I crated her alone and walked her on leash.
  2. After an initial adjustment, when it was apparent she was accepting me, I used the clicker to teach her to interact with me, and then (much later) fetch a ball. Again, always training alone.
  3. I used a shock collar to break her of "working" the other dogs.

In the day, I did it deliberately, thinking that I might be "ruining" her for any future sheep work. And when I placed her, I talked to her new owner at length about how it was applied, and that she probably would not ever be any good for even the most casual herding work. I believe now that is untrue, that trash-breaking the way I did it, wouldn't bleed over into working stock.

 

I let her out, hid myself, and waited for the second she allowed her eye to "catch" another dog. I zapped her then. I didn't mess around with the lower settings, either, I hit her pretty hard. Then I stepped out of the house and called her and told her what a good doggy she was when she looked my way or took a few steps in my direction.

 

It took about three corrections, then another session another day, and after that it was at least possible to get her attentiion when she was getting "into the zone." That was all I was going for. We did more focused obedience work and then a guy took her who intended to do agility with her.

 

Your foster is only a puppy, so a shock collar is probably not needed. But corrections combined with what you are doing, with the incompatible behavior, almost certainly will be. After so long just basically amusing himself, he's got to learn that you are She Who Is To Be Obeyed.

 

Good luck!

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I had similar trouble with Dean when we adopted him. He wasn't interested in ball or anything - he wanted to chase Speedy. And, of course, Speedy didn't want Dean that close to him, so it was challenging.

 

I took Dean out by himself every day and slowly got him interested in toys. For a while I never took him outside with the other dogs. They had their turn as a group and then Dean and I went out on our own.

 

Now that he knows how to play with the toys, he plays with the group appropriately. He still likes to follow Speedy everywhere, but he's appropriate about it now, and he can be called off, or will leave him to chase a ball.

 

If he won't chase a ball or frisbee when you go out alone with him, you could put some treats in a sock (let him see you putting the treats in there, and sniff it) and start by tossing that short distances. Once he gets the idea of chasing the flying sock, making the jump to toys will be easier.

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OK, so the advice is making sense to me. He needs doggy detox, since his addiction is to dogs. Now, the logistics of achieving that may be a bit more complicated. With 5 dogs in a relatively small house, keeping Owen completely separated from the other dogs will be nearly impossible. He is already spending a bit of time on the porch right now because he is not yet house trained. So, if I can't be watching him 100% of the time when he is in the house, I have to either confine him in a crate or on the porch. I will start to take him out on walks and such on his own without the other dogs, though. I will also make sure that if the other dogs are in the back yard, then Owen will be in the house with me, or otherwise confined so that he can't go out and play with them. I have a feeling that this detox program is going to be pretty hard on both of us, but if it will help Owen achieve some balance, I'm willing to do it.

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Oh, and coupled with what I described above, we work on impulse control in less stimulating situations in the house.

 

So, I'll crate Dean and train Speedy where he can see. When Dean is quiet in his crate, he gets an occasional click and treat.

 

If Dean barks or goes nutty, I cover the crate so he can't see us for a few minutes. Once he gets his "viewing privilege" back, I take things a bit slower and reward more for calm behavior.

 

The "jackpot" at the end of that is that Speedy goes in the crate and Dean gets to train for a few minutes.

 

Eventually, my goal is that Dean will lie in a down-stay outside while Speedy chases a ball and brings it back. That is a ways away, but slowly we are building that self-control.

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I have a feeling that this detox program is going to be pretty hard on both of us, but if it will help Owen achieve some balance, I'm willing to do it.

 

I just want to offer some encouragement here! Hang in there - it will get better!!

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O.K., I'm gonna take the other-side view. We adopted 2 BCmix 6mth puppies in October. Fiona fits Owens description to a "T". Except you can add anxiety behaviours over anything that goes down our street.

 

We're getting better now, after working endlessly on sit-stay, down-stay, and watch-me's and working hard on a solid recall. We tried keeping her seperate from the other 3 dogs in our house, but for her, that just made the anxiety worse.

 

What did work, was getting her into a group obedience class with other dogs. The first 2 days we went were a little excitable for her, but now, after "socializing" her intentionally ON LEAD, ALWAYS, she can walk into the ring, or down the street and meet any other dog and gently say hello, with no excitable, bad, herding, behaviours at all. Just last week, we let her loose with our trainer/behaviourist's Malamute, and the two of them played great and just had a great time. No problems. Could not have done this 3 months ago.

 

She has also been mixed with the other members of our house only about 4 weeks into training. She has even learned to leave the cats alone (we have 6 indoor fuzzies). She'll walk up and sniff them, interested, but then just goes the other way. She has even been caught sleeping with our 16# maine coon cat. We are still working on the "Loose in the fenced yard" behaviours of anxiety. That too, will come in time.

 

She too has no interest in toys. Still. She'll watch her "sister" retrieve all day, trying to steal it from her, only to drop it. But as far as keeping her attention with it, nothing doing.

 

I wouldn't worry about the weight either. Like already said, once he has been on the proper diet and gets the proper excercise, it will come off. Good Luck!

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I really appreciated all the advice that I got on dealing with Owen. I thought I'd give you all an update on his "rehab."

 

I started his rehab yesterday afternoon. From now on (at least for a while), Owen is no longer allowed to play with the other dogs. In fact, he is pretty much isolated from the other dogs, although he can clearly see them through the sliding glass doors that lead out to the porch. I went home at lunch time and took him for about a half an hour walk around the block. Then, we went to the side yard and I tried to get him interested in chasing the ball. He didn't really know what I was doing at first, but seemed intrigued. Eventually, he would run after the ball for a few steps and then stop and look at me. After work, we took all the dogs for their normal hour long walk and left Owen home. After our walk, I took Owen to the fields at the park where I had taken he and Charlie the day before. We practiced a few obedience commands and worked on a "watch" command. Watch is a difficult one becasue Owen is so submissive that he doesn't want to look me in the eye. :D I think he was starting to get it a little though.

 

Then, we started to play with the tennis ball. I would wave the ball around in front of him and act all excited until he was jumping and trying to grab the ball (nailed me on the thumb good once, too :rolleyes: ). Anyway, after doing that and throwing the ball a few times, he started to get the hang of it. He even started to bring the ball back and drop it for me to throw again! :D Yay! We played fetch for a good half an hour or more. As long as Owen would keep running after it, I would keep throwing it. By the end, Owen was exhausted! :D When we went home, Owen just slept for the rest of the evening. There is nothing more satisfying than a pooped border collie. So, I'm starting to believe that there is hope for Owen yet.

 

Eventually, we will start to introduce dogs back into his life, but that is a ways off in the future. Thank you to everyone for your advice. :D

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You've gotten some good advice, I think getting him away from the other dogs for a while is a good idea.

 

Have you considered getting herding lessons with him? He's pretty young so maybe it isn't a good idea if he'll need a lot of pressure and discipline to make him work nicely, but trying it can't hurt. I can't think of anything better that would get him moving and occupy his mind. I think it will also teach him some self control, which would be useful when you start incorporating the other dogs back into his life.

 

He's a handsome boy!

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Here's an idea that might help you with "watch". I did this with Dean when we first got him and he was a little reluctant to look me in the eye, except when he wanted to!!

 

I held some treats in my fist and let Dean paw at it, sniff at it, etc. When he pulled his nose away from my hand, even slightly, I clicked and gave him one of the treats. You can do this without the clicker, too. Just say "yes" and give a treat. After he had that down pat, I suddenly stopped doing that and waited until he looked up at me (wanting to know why he wasn't getting his click/treat) and at that point I clicked and gave a treat. I slowly built up the "look" that way. If you do it that way, you don't say "look" or "watch" until the dog does it easily, though.

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