Click your dog to an outrun in 2 days

[PennyT]

Below this paragraph is some text for a clicker weekend. By the end of the weekend, dogs that have never seen sheep before will be doing short outruns. What on earth can be meant by outrun? Flanks? Short flanks with short fetches? I have some dogs with outstanding outwork and not one has ever done a short outrun after two days of lessons on stock. The teacher does seem to follow that cardinal rule of dog training: Don't bring your gun. And I always advise beginners not to attend clinics where fights break out even to observe. It's distracting.

 

PARTIAL TEXT OF AD:

 

Clicker herding

- reinforcement - when/how

- how correction works better than punishment

- getting your dog deep into those corners

- gaining distance on outruns

- stopping, starting, downing, flanking

- establishing long-distance reliability

- what to do when things fall apart

- slowing down the speeding bullet herding dog

- control, control, control

- creating just the right flock for your dog

- caring for your flock

- herding on a budget

 

Saturday is for beginner handlers or dogs. Basics are covered, lots of

round and square pen work, handling, commands. The manner in which a

dog is introduced to stock can be a key to his future ability and

attitude - the subject matter of this camp.

GOAL: At the end of the day beginner dogs (and their handlers) will be

able to do a short outrun, gather a flock of sheep or ducks, fetch the

flock to the handler, flank in each direction, stop, call off, and

start again....

 

This is herding via clicker training, so if you tell your non-

clicker training friends, make sure they understand that violence will

not be tolerated.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm a little taken aback by the one-size-fits-all goal. Don't most clinicians take the dogs on face value and use the troubleshooting sessions to demonstrate their methods?

 

I'll freely admit to using the clicker on a couple occaisions "on stock." I suppose a person with a lot of experience both on stock and using the clicker could do a lot with it (though I'm still not convinced most trainers at that level would find it extraneous).

 

But the goals are so ambitious - I'm both appalled and highly curious.

[Pearse]

I was all over this, ready to pack up the dog in the trailer, find my really big clicker (you know good to 600 yards) and git down there until:

- creating just the right flock for your dog

I realized they were talking about clicker training the SHEEP and then...

 

- herding on a budget

... I realized it was all a cruel joke.

 

Pearse

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

quote:

---

- herding on a budget

... I realized it was all a cruel joke.

 

- getting your dog deep into those corners

Dunno about you, but if my dog goes looking for corners here, I'm gonna go find a dog that will look for my sheep instead . . .

[PennyT]

Oops. I didn't notice first time through. The ad was for a one day clinic/seminar.

 

I have some sheep I'd like to clicker train, then I might not have to hunt for places that they'll settle. I hate setting with corn. Since I try to get a decent size outrun, I'd need Pearse's really big clicker.

 

In fact, I don't object to anything that works even clickers. My skepticism kicks in at doing outruns so soon (unless the teacher is calling a flank with a bit of fetching room an outrun) and at long distance control with dogs that haven't seen stock before.

 

The ad reminds me of some TV commercials for miracle products.

 

Penny

[border_collie_crazy]

now see I think that the training should depend on the dog lol Happy never needed much training at all, and she WAS doing outruns her second day, learning to drive on her first, downing from a distance on her first time ever seeing sheep and being easily called away from the sheep her first time, but thats Happy for you, and its only because I Have all power over her, and my command overrides her instict(which I suppose can sometimes be a bad thing in BCs lol)because of this, even though she turned on the moment she saw sheep for the first time, I never once lost control over her, she already knew distance down, and come to me when I call whether she likes it or not, and how to go out in any direction I ask. because she lost non of this upon seeing sheep it really simplified matters lol there are very few dogs like Happy however, and she aint clicker trained..she is too smart for a clicker lol I acn see Misty being clicker trained to an outrun but i would be an awfully short one and she would not be actually herding, she would just be going around the sheep cuz jee if she goes to that spot she will get a cookie lol

[Zoe]

border_collie_crazy - I love what you just posted ! Classic. BTW, I can't see your avatar pic....

[kajarrel]

Hey, great idea! Get smarter sheep to compensate for "dumb" dogs! Wonder how their lamb or wool crop will be affected? Oh yeah, I forgot, sheep are dog toys . . . AGH!

 

Kim

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Oh, come on, dream big - we can breed versatile sheep - ovines that do it all - meat lambs 100 pounds in 180 days, 12 inch staple wool, and perfectly biddable for dog training.

[cgt]

Versatile Sheep that Do It All?

 

What about agility and obedience?

 

Ease of house-training?

 

Lavender?

 

Asking too much?

 

I would settle for a breed that doesn't take pleasure

in poking its head through a square in my field fence,

getting stuck, and then sitting there all day like an idiot.

 

charlie

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'll trade you for sheep that keep going through the fence and end up on the highway. Why the highway when clover is knee-deep in their safe pastures? Possibly they are Harley fans waiting for the Sunday driveby. They are versatile sheep, after all.

[Maralynn]

Originally posted by cgt -

 

I would settle for a breed that doesn't take pleasure

in poking its head through a square in my field fence,

getting stuck, and then sitting there all day like an idiot.

[Jennifer Glen]

Charlie,

Are you telling me that teaching sheep not to put their heads in fences wasn't covered in that clinic you were at a few weeks ago? Maybe you weren't listening. No sheep put their heads in fences at our place. I suspect Scott has been walking around behind the sheep and clicking whenever the sheep behave.

Jenny

[Carson Crazies]

Maybe Charlie's waiting too long between clicking and treating. You ARE treating, right Charlie?

[airbear]

A common error, Charlie, is that you may have forgotten to load the clicker. Not the gun, the clicker. And Laura's right, latency between click and treat will slow down the learning process.

 

Maybe you need to take an online clicker training course?

[juliepoudrier]

Y'all are hilarious. The first thing that struck me with that list was "creating just the right flock for your dog." Whatever happened to your dog working whatever it is you've got? But y'all said it better....

 

J.

[cgt]

* Yes, very funny. I am sure my neighbors are very amused with my Green Acres Shepherding Skills.

 

* Click and REWARD? Well, I thought that cutting a hole in my new fence ($%&^#*$*!) to restore the ewe's throat to its previous, unconstricted state would be reward enough. But maybe not. And a latency of several hours could be a factor.

 

* I should have suspected Scott used clickers. I remember watching his runs at Soldier Hollow last year (I was at the top sorting sheep) - he would always take some completely wild-assed sheep and, by the time he got them to his feet, he always seemed to have created "the right flock for his dog".

 

BTW Jenny, I hope Scott had a good time at that clinic. It was a great clinic and everyone had a blast. (Well, excepting 1 or 2 incidents which are unfortunately OT and cannot be discussed. Ever.)

 

charlie

[DeltaBluez Tess]

I do *clicker training*.....

 

I *click* my crook on the ground when my dog does not give me the correct behavior.

 

Scott wants to *click* his crook to the side of my noggin when I do not give him the correct behavior. (I know, I have seen it in his eyes)

 

My sheep *click* their heels and run off when I slip on a sheep pile and I do the *oh no, I am gonna fall down dance*

 

Tess *clicked* her teeth on a charging ewe this morning....the ewe lost.

 

Diane

[Jennifer Glen]

Charlie,

He said he did enjoy that clinic.

Jenny

[Deacon Dog]

"No sheep put their heads in fences at our place. I suspect Scott has been walking around behind the sheep and clicking whenever the sheep behave."

 

Not impressed. Let me know when he offers the advanced clinic on clicker training goats not to put their heads in fences.

[NancyO]

Penny,

 

I had seen this type of clinic when I first got interested in herding

 

I guess the good thing was I knew there was something not right with this type of training.

 

Sheep were in a pen about 12' x 12'. There were cones setup on 3 sides of the 4 sided pen. Dog and person (notice I didn't say handler) were on the 4th side. Person threw food or toy to the first cone. Dog ran to the cone to get the food, person clicked when it got to the cone. And so forth all around the pen. (Never could figure out how they could throw that well to the cone on the far side of the pen). this was considered an outrun.

 

For balance exercises, person would send dog to other side of pen, when it lined up with the sheep and the handler, the handler clicked and threw food/toy.

 

You could have put anything inside the pen, guess since there were sheep in there it made it a herding clinic.

 

One of the participants there told me she had been doing this for 3 years and didn't know if her dog would "ever be ready to acutally work the sheep"

 

Nancy O

[PennyT]

Policy: Barring the situation of horns, if the head went in the square without cutting a hole, the head can come out the same way. Pull from the rear, don't push from the front. Pushing might work for someone extremely strong; it doesn't for me.

 

The ultimate aversive: the sale barn.

 

It seems to me it's always the same ones that do it.

 

Penny