UKC vs. AKC

[Katelynn & Gang]

I heard someone talking about UKC a few days ago. Never hit me that they do conformation too!

 

So, if daul reg. with AKC is ever banned (wishful thinking), would it also be for UKC?

 

Is UKC good for the Border Collie compared to AKC or is it still just as bad?

 

Katelynn, Dice, Cue, and Rev

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

a) I think it's ANY conformation title, whether ACK, UKC, or whether the dog goes overseas as some of them do and gets titles in Germany, the UK, what have you.

 

Conformation is conformation, but the UKC program is actually rather de-emphasized and the breed judging is tightly controlled by the breed clubs themselves and can be extremely loose in nature. The mission of the UKC is the "total dog" - peformance and conformation co-equal (well, supposedly). And, there is a "breed" class for spayed and neutered animals.

 

c) UKC programs are miniscule in size compared to the ACK. I doubt there's anyone out there in conformation who breeds strictly with the UKC in mind. The standard itself is very vague: http://www.ukcdogs.com/breeds/herdingdogs/...ollie.std.shtml

 

Thus, I don't see the UKC as much of a threat. It just can't have much of an influence between being so small and with the conformation standard almost an afterthought. Maybe if it were the only conformation program open to Border collies I'd be concerned.

 

Still, if a dog gets a conformation title from UKC it will still be deregistered ABCA.

[Katelynn & Gang]

I understand that any conformation Champion will be de-registered, from any kennel club. I am in total and full agreement with that. Actually I would like to see dual registry banned as well, sometime in the future.

 

I was just wondering if there was ever a banding of dual registered dogs with AKC would that also include UKC?

 

Does anyone have dogs that are registered with the UKC for agility and/or obedience?

 

I'd really like to hear peoples opinions of the registry.

 

Katelynn

[Eileen Stein]

Originally the UKC did not include border collies in conformation classes. For a long time after AKC recognition, the UKC continued to class border collies as a performance-only breed, in response to requests from the USBCC that they exclude them from conformation showing. During that time, we recommended the UKC as a suitable forum for obedience competition with BCs. That changed in late 2000 or early 2001, when a bigwig in the AKC (V-P, I think) moved over to become head guy at the UKC (I think he bought the UKC, actually, when its long-time former owner, Fred Miller, died). He decided the UKC should follow the AKC model, where all dogs are conformation dogs -- that they were forgoing a good source of income by not doing so. They did the same thing to the English Shepherd at the same time. In fact, we at the USBCC only found out they had made the change because of the fuss the English Shepherd folks kicked up, since UKC didn't let us know directly, even though they'd previously promised they wouldn't make any change without consultation with us.

 

If dual registration were banned, it would go for any registry that sponsors conformation showing of the border collie -- the UKC as well as the AKC. The principle is the same in either case -- border collies should not be judged on an appearance standard. However, the UKC is really not in a position to do any damage to the border collie, because its influence in shaping breeder practices and public perceptions is minuscule to non-existent. It's the AKC, because its influence and dominion is enormous, that does the damage.

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by Kate, Dice, Cue, and Rev:

Does anyone have dogs that are registered with the UKC for agility and/or obedience?

 

I'd really like to hear peoples opinions of the registry.

My training club started in UKC events and I've done both agility and obedience with the UKC. Speaking from the performance end of things, I find the UKC to be extremely supportive and encouraging of all dogs and handlers. In addition to allowing mixed breeds, they also allow handicapped dogs to compete, as long as the dog is capable and not struggling. I've seen a few 3 legged dogs do very well in agility or obedience. And handlers in wheelchairs are also not uncommon.

 

I like their attitude a lot, though I don't always care for the agility courses (often tight and lacking flow with too much emphasis on control). I could do without some of their more unusual obstacles as well right now, but that's because my Lhasa is more particular about that sort of thing than my shelties were. When Quinn is old enough to do agility, their crawl tunnel, platform jump, swing plank etc. may become non-issues again I've also found that they make a lot of mistakes recording Q's and points. Just based on my dogs and what I hear other people say, the number of errors implies it must be something going on at the office and not always the clubs' paperwork that is to blame for inaccuracies.

 

I don't do conformation though several people at my club do. It sounds like a more laid back version of AKC conformation. I think that sums up UKC -- more laid back, more relaxed, a little friendlier. It can be a nice venue to start off in for that reason.

 

Liz

[Katelynn & Gang]

Eileen, who is the parent club for the Border Collie in the UKC? Guessing the BCSA?

 

Katelynn

[Eileen Stein]

Kate, as far as I know there IS no parent club for the border collie in the UKC. Although they have "parent clubs" (don't think they call them that, though -- I think they call them something like affiliated national breed clubs) for some breeds, they certainly don't for all their breeds. They tend to have fewer layers of bureaucracy than the AKC does. In any case, I know it's not the BCSA. The BCSA is strictly AKC.

[tessa_s212]

Originally posted by Kate, Dice, Cue, and Rev:

Does anyone have dogs that are registered with the UKC for agility and/or obedience?

 

I'd really like to hear peoples opinions of the registry.

 

Katelynn

I compete in UKC agility and obedience, and if I ever get the new dog I have been waiting so long for, I will be competing in conformatoin as well.

 

I find UKC to be much more laid back when it comes to judging from the standard, and probably because their registry does put emphasis on dogs that can do what they were originally bred to do. (That was why it was formed--people were unahppy with AKC's "conformation is best" attitude.)

 

As for UKC in general, I find the registry to be a not very popular one, but the people and judges you usually meet are very nice.

[Barb Scott]

My Aussie was LP'd in UKC (she was the 5th dog to receive and LP number in the early 90's) and competed in obedience and agility. Our first BCs also competed in UKC obedience and agility. But, UKC agility has some strange obstacles in levels 2 & 3 (such as sit, jump, sit) that I didn't like. Also in our area, there seems to be a prejudice against BCs (UKC judges can take away discretionary points), and we finally just quit competing in UKC events. I agree that the people and judges are nice and they also allow extra time for handicapped handlers (as well as dogs).

Barb S