BCSA Proposal For Open BC AKC Registry

[Katelynn & Gang]

Just wondering........

 

Why don't all of us "non" AKC people write up a Proposal of our own against the Open Registry for the Border Collie?

 

Or each to our own send in emails and letters?

 

We could all make it clear that the true breeders of the breed will not let AKC make a profit off of our dogs with writing up stick non AKC contracts and such.

 

There has to be something we can do to stop it before its wayyyyyy to late!

 

Sick to my stomach over this crap these people are doing to my breed......

 

Katelynn

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I think it's wasted effort to address the AKC in any way. They do what they do - it's a bit in my mind like chiding a bear for tearing open a car to get the goodies inside. You'd have to change who the AKC is to change their stance on this issue.

 

What we should do is make sure our "sandbox" is more attractive. Are we encouraging responsible breeding? Are we fostering a spirit of openness to new people in our culture? Are we making sure that we are doing all we can to present the working Border collie as the true example of the breed, through supporting education and promoting responsible breeders and doing all we can to stay up to speed on the working Border collie ourselves? Do you locate and volunteer at working trials in your area, and encourage others to do so also? Do we encourage the spay/neuter of dogs that do not work stock and discourage folks from selecting pups from non-working parents?

 

Are you a member of the ABCA/USBCC? Not meaning the OP, but all of us reading and considering this issue.

[Katelynn & Gang]

Yes, I am a ABCA memeber.

 

Katelynn

[jimahall]

I recently traded a BC pup for an intact AKC Great Pyrenese female pup. I want her for LGD work. According to the AKC breed club, I must have her spayed if she is to be an active livestock guardian dog. I may keep her intact and breed from her if, and only if, she is never to used as a working dog.

 

Can you imagine what would happen if the AKC makes this rule for the Border Collie. Only breed from non-working dogs. How many generations would it take to have only non-working dogs?

[juliepoudrier]

Well isn't that just about what you'd expect from a conformation registry. Ignore what the dog was meant to do in favor of someone's idea of pretty, and by golly if you actually use the dog for its intended purpose then you better not breed it! It boggles the mind, even though it doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

J.

[Sue R]

Originally posted by jimahall:

According to the AKC breed club, I must have her spayed if she is to be an active livestock guardian dog. I may keep her intact and breed from her if, and only if, she is never to used as a working dog.

This makes absolutely NO sense at all! I expect it is not surprising in light of what appear to be the "real goals" of conformation breeding. Those goals seem to include making an insipid house pet out of any breed of dog by removing any and all characteristics that make it a useful and unique breed in the first place, standardizing its eye, coat, and nose colors, and lengthening or bulking up its coat!

 

On the other hand, a friend of mine took her intact, working Anatolian Shepherd to a specialty where he won all sorts of points, etc. Maybe because it's a different breed, but I have heard of several actively and truly working Anatolians that have excelled in conformation competition.

[Pipedream Farm]

I found this...

 

LIVESTOCK GUARDIAN DOGS

 

1. All provisions of this Code apply to livestock guardian dogs, except as specified.

 

2. Members will not engage in the breeding or selling of livestock guardian dogs unless they are willing to undertake the education and responsibility involved with such animals.

 

3. In order to protect both type and function in the breed, breeders shall not separate show and guardian stock.

 

4. It is the obligation of the breeder to determine the specific needs of the buyers and to be available to them for information and advice.

 

5. Members recognize the growing impact on the breed of the indiscriminate production of livestock guardian dogs. Therefore, they will observe the following:

 

a. All dogs intended to be primary livestock guardian dogs shall be sold on written spay/neuter agreements, and without registration papers . Registration papers may be supplied with dogs that have been spayed or neutered before leaving the breeder.

 

b. Pairs of pups or dogs shall not be sold to the same party unless they have been spayed and neutered before leaving the breeder.

 

c. Extreme caution will be taken in selling a breedable animal to anyone who breeds, or intends to breed, livestock guardian dogs if that person is not a member of the GPCA. Such dogs shall be sold on co-ownership with written contracts specifying that the buyer shall abide by the provisions of this code.

 

Source: Great Pyrenees Club

of America Code of Ethics

Mark

[Smokjbc]

According to the AKC breed club, I must have her spayed if she is to be an active livestock guardian dog. I may keep her intact and breed from her if, and only if, she is never to used as a working dog. >>>

 

>>>>

 

Hi,

 

This is not to support AKC or its rules at all- but it was my understanding that intact bitches normally are not used for (at least free range) guardian work because of the chance of being bred by coyotes and/or loose dogs while out working. I had heard this about livestock guardian dogs that probably aren't AKC registered at all, but who work up in Northern Nevada/Basque country. I had heard that in that area,at least, only a few females are kept alive for breeding, many are culled at birth or given away.

[Kelliwic Border Collies]

it was my understanding that intact bitches normally are not used for (at least free range) guardian work because of the chance of being bred by coyotes and/or loose dogs while out working.

 

I was about to write that this was my guess, when I scrolled down to see this comment. For the above reason, the policy almost makes sense.

 

The problem with it is that you can usually have a sense of when a bitch will come into season, and confine her during that time, so if the owner has more than one guardian dog (one can stay with the flock if a female is in heat), the possibility of an accidental breeding seems to be be a non-issue.

 

:confused:

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

It took three tries to get our working Marremma pair (who were working different flocks) to breed. I had the male and he kept driving off the visiting bitch. Putting them in a pen together freaked out both of them so badly that there was nothing else on their minds.

 

Then we had the bright idea of giving the bitch her own "flock" here a month before she cycled. What a great plan, except she then wouldn't leave "her" sheep - even a hundred feet out of the pen to visit Strider, whose territory and sheep included "hers." Then we tried to make a working pair out of them, but by that time, she had bonded to "her" sheep and drove HIM off every time he came near.

 

Finally we tied HER up long enough to accept him as a working partner, then tied HIM up so he wouldn't leave to go work his other sheep. THat worked and we got a litter of very nice working dogs out of it.

 

But, the moral of this story to me is, if the dogs are worth breeding I wouldn't be worrying about whether the intact animals are wandering around breeding to random animals they are supposed to be guarding against. I suppose it happens but I've also seen first hand that it doesn't HAVE to happen. If I had free range working animals it would probably be a different story, of course. But then how do you make sure the breeding stock has the correct instincts?

 

By the way, all the time that poor bitch kept visiting, we were drawing lots of neighborhood dogs - but dogs, in season or not, rarely come back twice here.

[Kelliwic Border Collies]

Wow, interesting! Thanks for sharing it.