Desperate help! 8 month old pup with strong prey drive attacking cats and chasing chickens

[Tegan and Oden]

Ok so a bit of background info: We've had our intact male 8 month old Border Collie since he was 8 weeks old. His parents are both working stock. Since day one I have been following Leslie McDevitts Controlled Unleashed and Dr Overall religiously. He is crate trained and I use the crate periodically for "time outs"). He's been to puppy classes and obedience classes and gets plenty of mental and physical stimulation on a daily bases. We also have a 13 year old border collie who we rescued as a 2 year old that was incredibly reactive and fearful but over the years she has developed in to a well adjusted confident dog. Oden our pup however is incredibly confident, something I am not use to so ive had to adjust my approach to training. He is an utter joy to be around and a total love bug with the entire family but the cats well that's something else. He has been introduced to the cats since he has been 8 week. We live on acreage and the cats have the run of the place but since around 4 months of age he started showing serious aggression toward them. To the point I had to get him off the cat, 100 percent convinced he was in for the kill. Since that last episode I have kept them seperate, only introducing the cats every...yes every...evening with him muzzled on a long long with plenty of high value treats and playing games like "look at that" and "leave it". I also have been using a flirt pole to work on his "leave it" and general impulse control although sometimes it just feels like I'm making him more excited to chase. He's as smart as a whip. He is not loose on our property unless the cat's are locked in the house. He is kept on a long line while I can't watch him as he will also go harass the chickens but that's another post for another day. Today after nearly 6 months of work and training a cat slipped out the front door and he managed to get a hold of him. All that work undone! The cat's ok luckily but I'm at a loss. I feel like he might just be a cat killer and I have to accept it. I really don't want to re-home our beloved cat with whom our kids adore but this is exhausting and after today I feel like he just hasn't learnt anything. I'm totally adverse to the idea but should I consider an e-collar or something of the like? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[D'Elle]

Hi there, and sorry you are having such difficulties. I am pretty much opposed to the "e-collars". If used extremely carefully by a fully trained practitioner/trainer, who has a great deal of experience with the system and how to use it, and if the situation truly warrants it, it can be an effective tool, but I always strongly recommend against it if you are not very well trained yourself in the use of it.

Also, I tend to think from what you wrote that you could even use that to train him and it would not matter to him if he saw a loose cat and you were not there to stop him. And it is inevitable that this incident you mention will happen again. It could result in a tragedy, as you well know.

To me, it is entirely unacceptable for one animal in the home to terrorize or potentially harm another. It seems you have been trying very hard on the training, and it is not working. Most border collies don't have that much of a prey drive but it seems your does. Your mention of the chickens solidifies this.

It seems to me that you have to choose between the cats and this puppy. If it were I, I would re-home the puppy because I believe firmly that the animals with seniority should not be squeezed out of their home and family by a newcomer.  If you re-home all of your cats (you don't mention how many there are) you will still have the problem with the chickens. Re-home the pup to a place where there are no small prey animals and your family and the dog will be much better off.

 

[Tegan and Oden]

Thanks D'Elle for your response. I am 100% determined to try to make this work and am realistic to the notion that it could take many more months or even years. I have read from people in similar situations that it could be puppy exuberance and things may settle as he ages. He is just such a great well rounded sensible dog in every other aspect and when he's in the house with cats on the couch he is fine (although it's still a very controlled environment). He just can't help himself when a cat runs.  Have you had experience using flirt poles. Am I doing the right thing by using one? Or could I be making things worse? I was told by my obedience trainer that in order to have a "soft mouthed" dog I should not be playing games such as tug or using a flirt pole but this goes against a dogs natural instincts. Don't they need an outlet that can be allowed such as this as apposed to taking his frustrations out on something not allowed? As devestating as it would be we would consider rehoming in the event that we continue to not see progress. I don't want to be ultimately responsible for the death of our beloved cat(s). 

[D'Elle]

Flirt poles are usually used to play with a dog by making something small and fast that they can chase. If that is how you are using a flirt pole, then you are training the puppy to chase small things that run. So, stop.

As for tug, I have always tugged with my dogs who liked it. But I would never use it with a dog I was training to bring me things and give them to me, or with a dog who was a resource-guarder.  In your case, I would say stop playing tug. If you keep the dog and he grows up to be well-behaved, you can re-introduce it as a game if you want to.

Dogs need an outlet, yes. Especially BC puppies. But think carefully about what you are doing for an outlet for him, and really examine the play mode from the dog's perspective. Think about the ramifications of letting the dog chase this, but trying to make him learn not to chase that.  It's pretty hard if not impossible for the puppy to understand the difference. It's like giving your puppy an old shoe to chew but expecting him not to chew your shoes.

Any other kind of play you want to introduce to replace the flirt pole and tug, look at carefully in the same way.

[Tegan and Oden]

Thank you D'Elle, I have been using the flirt pole to work on his "leave it" training. We are at the point in training were I can be luring him with the flirt pole and say "leave it" and he will stop mid flight and wait again for my release cue "ok" before he continues his chase. I also ask him to return to his mat and make eye contact before I release him for the chase again. He is making great progress and my intention behind this game is to have some form of control when he chases something like a cat I can cue him to disengage. Maybe this will come with age?? I don't know. I think you are right and maybe for the moment I should stop this kind of play along with tug and see if things improve and possibly re-introduce at a later date. The games I chose to play with him are ones that don't get him too worked up so he stays below threshold. He's my daily running partner and I also walk him. He loves fetch and playing hide and seek with his toys.  Again, I appreciate all the advice you give. 

[Journey]

At 8 months his prey drive is kicking in fully. Keep up with the leave it, make there be consequences now for *not* leaving it. Instead of playing games and jacking him up, teach him settle games, a place to go lay down and chill. The leave it will return, when hormones and brain are functioning again..ride this out and be 100% on top of him. The muzzle doesn't stop the behavior, only the bite. I have no qualms with an E collar for life/death situations. I would recommend a prong collar, with corrections, first. You say he drags a line? Step on the line, with the prong collar properly fitted, and he will get a good solid correction *while* chasing the chickens.  This may have a greater impact as it happens during the behavior, much like the E collar. I just prefer to go to the prong first. Remember too, he's a juvenile delinquent right now, this will get better, with tons of work and corrections - you're fighting instinct. Yes, you can make him behave. It's not necessarily the cats or the chickens, it's the chase. Hang in there.  

[Tegan and Oden]

Thank-you Journey. Using the muzzle is mostly for my own piece of mind as sometimes the cats will approach him while he's on his mat. He has not reacted negatively yet but that's because I am always there with him. I think I will consider using a prong when working with the cats and chickens. He is not a sensitive dog like our other older girl and although he does respond well to treats.... when he's "locked" on to the cat a cue and treat doesn't always work and I'm using physical pressure to move him back to his mat. I think possibly the collar could work in this scenario to get his attention back to me and then treat. Thank-you for giving me hope that this could have a happy ending. I am determined to make this work. He really is such a good boy. 

[Journey]

I'm not sure what you mean by *physical pressure* were he mine I'd snatch him up by his cheeks and place him back where he was supposed to be. Step on his line and make it so he can't get to them. As for treats..I'm 50/50 on them, for teaching yes, for a correction reward no..no treat when he goes back to where he was at..only a treat when he stays put and leaves them alone - build on it, 5 min, 10 min..etc.. He's not a good boy, he's a naughty juvenile delinquent right now  and he is pretty normal!

[Tegan and Oden]

By "physical pressure" I'm mean body blocking him when he gets off his mat so I am in front of him, then using my body to persuade him to go back to his mat. Often this works when it doesn't I take his collar and put him back on. I will stop with the treats when correcting (makes total sense!) And only reward when he has sat quietly for a period of time. He is totally a juvenile delinquent and I think the great responses I have received from people in this forum have made me realize that I need to switch gears from training a puppy to training a pre-adult who needs a little more oomf when being corrected. Thanks again for these great responses.