Guest totallyterry2003 Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Has anyone tried the new K-9 Advantage that is not only suppose to kill ticks and fleas but also mosquitoes upon contact with the dog? It is cheaper than Front Line and their literature a.k.a. ads sound great. Many border collie owners have found ticks on their dogs that Front Line was not getting and I know of many dogs that ended up with Lyme or Rocky Mountain Fever when they were religiously Front Lined monthly. Just wanted to know if anyone has had experience with this product. My concern is that many ticks seem to have built up an immunity to the old preventitives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Terry, Are you talking about Advantix? For a while, the Advantage folks were having vets pass out something called Killtix that was supposed to make up for the fact that Advantage wasn't effective against ticks. Now I think they have just reformulated Advantage to contain the same chemical that was in the Killtix. The reason for this long explanation: the tick-killing part of Killtix and now Advantix is, I believe, permethrin. As my vet pointed out to me when we discussed it several months ago (because I am one of the folks who have found Frontline to be ineffective now when it used to work in the early days), permethins were being used back in the 1980s for flea and tick control. And the fleas and ticks seemed to develop a resistance to it (I know this for a fact because I used to work for a vet then, and the only way the permethrin products seemed to work during baths and dips was by drowing the little bugs--live fleas would be crawling almost as soon as the dog was out of the tub....). So that brings the question "will the permethrin now work against ticks?" Maybe now that 20 years have passed (and assuming that permethrins weren't used much during those years because they weren't working), the newest generations of fleas and ticks haven't been exposed and may notbe resistant. It's worth a try anyway; can't be any less effective than any other product out there.... (And if you're talking about a different product with different ingredients, then you can ignore all the preceding comments!) From Tick-L I gather that the only thing that really works is the amitraz (Preventic) collars. But they won't work if your dog is getting wet a lot (by jumping in stock tanks and the like). Hope that helps! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgt Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Julie: Tick-L??? It appears that everything is on the internet. Is there a Nematode-L? (Sorry. Don't mind me. Discuss, discuss.) charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Charlie, Your assignment is to go out and find if there is indeed a nematode-L! Tick-L actually has lots of useful information if you are concerned about tick-borne diseases in dogs. I think I probably first heard about it on Sheepdog-L or something similar! I skim many of the posts, but it's nice to know there's a good resource out there (there are vets on that list too) seeing as how the tick control products do not seem to be working all that well. And I must say I was quite surprised (don't really know why now that I think about it) by the number of people who have trouble convincing their vets to use established protocols for treating diseases like Lyme. Even my own vet is not up on that, but if I ever have a dog test positive, at least I know what the treatment shouldbe! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Permethrin is a synthetic pyrethrin. Both are the same old ingredients that were in the Zodiac sprays I used to use on my Pomeranian years ago. She never got fleas or ticks, but that seemed to be independent of treatments because she didn't have them even if I didn't spray her (and she spent a lot of time outside). So, the stuff in Advantix isn't anything new, as Julie said. I have heard rumors (unsubstantiated) that permethrins are harmful to dogs/some dogs are sensitive/yadda yadda. I don't know if they are true. Solo got Lyme even though he is Frontlined every month. The problem is that even when it works, the ticks can apparently still stay on long enough before they die to pass the bacterium. For the most part I'd say it works, because otherwise I'd expect my dogs to have fleas (big fat scary urban fleas we have in Philly) and a lot more ticks than they do. I only pick off one at a time at very very irregular intervals. On the other hand, I'm sure I miss a lot and the small deer ticks are really really hard to find even if you're looking for them. In the city here we mostly have huge scary ticks that are the size of my pinky nail when they are NOT INFLATED. Digest that horror for a moment, if you will. Solo's vet/behaviorist told me that the amitraz collars are effective even if you only put them on the dog while he is outside (and take them off the rest of the time). So, you could remove them when the dog gets wet. This is an issue for us because amitraz is an MAOI, which interacts with some of the meds Solo's on, so he can't wear a tick collar 24/7. If you go with the amitraz collars, be sure to discuss any possible meds interactions with the vet, if your dog is on any meds. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to use collars or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheri McDonald Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Ours are both Frontlined every month, but we still found ticks on Rob. I called the Frontline number and they told me that it takes two to three days for the tick to die. We they weren't dying. We began spraying the yard once a month. If there is something new that is working better than Frontline I would love to try it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmetteabrakai Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 I asked about the new advantix , and our community practice Docs are not reccomending it at this point, because of the permetherins.It seems they feel like it is not as safe as it could be. I use frontline on my dogs and I find ticks on them too at times. But it is water resistant, and Advantage isn't even though it now kills ticks. Also I have to admit the ticks are allot worse with out Frontline than with it. But I am parinoid about the one tick that could deliver the tick born diseases. So I still don't want those little Suckers on my dogs. I think the Philly ticks may have hitch hiked here to the mid west, I found a huge tick last night as yet un attached but looking. I'm all ears too if any one has any suggestions. I remember someone suggesting spraying skin so soft in a fine mist as a natural flea and tick treatment. Maybe that along with the Frontline would be helpful :confused: Andrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 I've heard it's the little itty bitty ones that are dangerous. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 Andrea, You are right. Apparently it's the nymphs that are most dangerous, though I think that's mainly because they are so small (think head of a pin) that they go unnoticed and so can stay attached long enough to transmit diseases. It takes something like 24 hours to transmit Lyme disease, and Frontline will (supposedly) kill a tick within 48 hours, so you can see the problem there. That said, if the Frontline is working at all, then reducing the tick load on your dogs as much as possible is increasing the odds in your favor, for what it's worth. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 That's been my philosophy. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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