Jump to content
BC Boards
Donald McCaig

"Herding"

Recommended Posts

Yeah. Sad to say.

 

On a related note, that there is a three page discussion about the affront of the use of a term like herding, while there hasn't been one about actual herding (sorry, stockwork training I mean!) in ages, says a lot about the current state of these forums....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a related note, that there is a three page discussion about the affront of the use of a term like herding, while there hasn't been one about actual herding (sorry, stockwork training I mean!) in ages, says a lot about the current state of these forums....

Smalahundur,

This is winter :) . It's -18C here, so now is the time for philosophizing and pondering upon various inconsequential linguistic minutiae by those who enjoy it. Otherwise we might find questions in "Ask the Expert" such as: "I have a rather cIappy dog, and I asked her to lie down, so she did, but the the pressure was such that she didn't want to get up for a while so now how do I thaw her out?"

 

Practical stock-work discussions will come with the first thaw.

 

For those who don't like discussions on language, there is this incredible drink grzaniec - which is hot beer with honey or even more hardcore hot beer with with egg-yolk.

 

My D'Arinetagnan and the three Musketeers seeing which direction spring is coming from:

post-8479-0-72148600-1520061653_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

P.S. In Polish we don't have problems related to sheep and dogs and work of political nature; there are some other problems with how to transplant all the terminology. The work used for stock work comes from the worth to "pasture", since shepherd in Polish is "pastor", so there as some problems e.g. with differentiation between what a gathering dog does and what an LGD does. Hence the mentioned "gathering dogs" designation.

 

My personal mission is to limit as far as possible the concepts of "herding a ball", "herding cars" and try to make people aware that a crucial thing in what happens between the dog and the sheep is interaction.

 

 

(In Polish we don't have problems related to sheep and dogs and work of political nature; there are some other problems with how to transplant all the terminology. Polish word f

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you people might find it interesting that the dutch word for shepherd is " herder". Both the human and canine kind. I kid you not.

 

@Sue, here it is around 0 C and I for one am starting my brand new eight month dog ;). Just tried him first time yesterday.

There has been virtually no traffic in the export section the last years, and hardly any in the stockwork related ones. There is no significant influx of new users that train their dogs on livestock. And that's what you need for lively discussions.

So just a couple of long time users shooting the breeze.

No, this is not a seasonal thing, sadly enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly, I think that is true. Most everyone who really works their dog has long gone from here, but a few remain to try and contribute and/or shoot the breeze.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Italian word for Shepherd is pastore. the dog is cane pastore. where I come from we mostly have pastore abbruzzese which is the maremma sheepdog, and often you see these dogs alone with their flock of sheep, up in the mountain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

maremma sheepdog,

 

I like them very much. In Poland, we have the Tatra shepherd which is supposed to be one of the few LGDs that can move flock as well. I hope to get one one day. Here, at 3:32 is a short fragment of the Tatra dog actually working sheep. The góral says afterwards "This is my best friend that has never let me down, saves my legs because I don't have to chase after the sheep, but goes around the sheep and also guards them at the pen..."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't normally get worked up in hair splitting semantics but had a chuckle when I came across this recently. Apparently a Herding Instinct Test is a thing? :D

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BorderColliesRock/permalink/10154255644898413/

With ACK, at least, I believe it is. Pretty worthless but a piece of paper, letters to attach to a registered name, and a profit source for the ACK and the folks who administer the test.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been a thing for a long time.

 

Back in the early to mid '80s I took one of my first border collies to a large "canine learning experience" the local KC put on annually. There were match shows, obedience matches (this was pre-agility days), eye and other health exams, various info sessions, etc. And a herding instinct test.

 

I'd taken Kate for the eye exam, but went over to watch the herding instinct test out of curiosity. The organizers were pretty frustrated as they watched a number of their ACK Working Group dogs (this was also pre-Herding Group and pre-ACK registration of border collies) stroll around the ring completely disinterested in the Indian runner ducks they were using. It had gotten to the point that they were awarding the "instinct certificate" to any dog that would even glance at the ducks.

 

I watched with amusement as a bearded collie pup thought the ducks were intriguing playthings and chased them around and pounced on them. The testers and organizers were ecstatic! "Wow!" they cried. "Look at that pup turn on!" The puppy really didn't have a clue but was most enthusiastically awarded his instinct certificate.

 

Well, I was there with my young border collie. She was barely started but she had a decent gather and fetch and some rudimentary directions on her, and I thought why not enter her and show them what instinct really looks like. So I walked up to the registration with my rather nondescript working border collie to sign up. The person doing the registrations turned around, still beaming from the beardie's stellar performance and started to hand me a registration form. She looked at me, then looked down at my dog, then looked back up at me . . . The smile disappeared and without saying a word, she promptly turned her back on me and walked away.

 

I don't have much respect for ACK "herding instinct" tests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didnt realize AKC was doing herding trials and tests in the 80s until I saw your post, GL. It looks like they were indeed as of 1989. I never actually saw one, but then again, I only handled in the hound or terrier group and field or earthdog trials. I left off AKC events in 1999 without ever seeing a herding trial. Guess you can say I lucked out! <[ETA] I say this because I probably would have thought they were representative of real work. I would not have known the difference.

 

 

ETA: Come to think of it, the field and earthdog trials may or may not have been AKC sanctioned. I dont remember.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think they were doing any trials yet. They hadn't even formed their "Herding Group" yet. Pastoral breeds were still under the Working Group then.

 

But they had started doing some instinct tests.

 

I left off doing any ACK stuff by 1984, and then it was just taking one dog through one obedience class. CD? I don't even remember for sure what that first obedience title is called. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AFAIK they weren't doing any faux trials then. They hadn't even formed their "Herding Group" yet. Pastoral breeds were still under the Working Group then.

 

But they had started doing some instinct tests.

Oh, I see. I think the split was 1983.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just looked it up. Yes, the Herding Group was founded in 1983. It's possible there were some early faux trials. I don't know. The event I was describing took place in 1984 or '85, still long before formal ACK "recognition" of border collies in 1996.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Herding instinct test is a fine thing :D , I offer one myself with a detailed description of the dog's work :D . It's kind of like drug dealing - they get the first snort out of curiosity, full of ignorance of the consequences, and before they know it, they are hooked and start buying more border collies, getting up in the middle of the night to drive 200 miles to get a DQ in the first 5 minutes, deciding this doesn't work, and buying an old run down farm house and some sheep...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol:

 

I've gotta admit that's pretty parallel to my experience. I had a young border collie that I got with obedience competition in mind and decided I'd like to know if he could do what he was bred to do and signed up for a clinic. Then I rented a small pasture and got 3 culled ewes, one of which ended up being pregnant. Decided after a year I liked raising sheep and working dogs so rented a larger pasture with a barn and got some more sheep and another dog. Then more sheep and more dogs.

 

Yeah, instinct testing can be a real slippery slope . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

B) That's my agenda exactly :D . But I am intrigued how that ewe ended up being pregnant :lol: .

 

We first had goats and got sick and tired of running around and chasing after the lil' rascals. We bought a border collie to help us with sheep, which we decided to have instead of the goats, and I so completely had no idea what the heck I was doing. I remember the day we got our sheep, our 8 mo border collie, and us all in one place. We looked at each other with the obvious question "and now what?". It was clueless beyond any imaginable clueless.

Below is the picture form that day. Later I posted some of those pics on a Polish BC forum and the good souls there tried the impossible task of helping me and urged me to go to the one and only trainer, who lived a mere 250 km from us. Fortunately very soon he moved and was "only" 150 km from our place. And only then did I see for the first time the work of a border collie. Not surprisingly, our first border collie grew up with the idea she knew better :D . But most people started by going to an instinct test, and some have become top competitors now.

post-8479-0-53390100-1520843425_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please forgive my use of the H word above. My iPad removes my quotations and my PC takes too long to boot up. Besides, I was referring to the AKC thing, so...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Doggers,

 

When I first told my wife I wanted a working dog she replied, "Sure. But where can you find a dog that can type?"

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...