Now or Wait?

[HHSunshine]

Hi! I am totally new to the Border Collie breed. All I know about them is what I have read (I've done tones of reading on them). I have a farm that I will be moving to a couple years down the road and I want to have a Border Collie when I move there. For right now I live at a place that also has tons of space for a dog to romp, and for me to play with, train, and exercise a BC. Plus I have a huge park just down the road about a mile and several other places I could take my BC if she/he got bored.

 

I am a very energetic person (run,bike, spend tons of time outside) and so a border collie would be perfect for me. Right now I have a friend that I go and work out with and spend a lot of my extra time with. But my friend is going to be moving away before to long and I thought that it might be time to start considering getting myself a BC.

 

My one concern right now is my job. I will be working 40 hours a week (might be able to work it so that this was broken up a little more if I knew far enough ahead of time to plan it that way) I don't want my BC going crazy while I am at work. I know when I am home I will be able to devote all time and energy to her/him, but I obviously could not while I was at work. So I guess my first question is.... How long is too long to leave a BC alone?

 

Second, would you all recommend waiting till I moved to my farm in a couple years to get a BC or would you recommend me going ahead and getting one now?

 

Would it be better to get two BC's so that the one was not lonely while I was at work? Or would getting two not fix the time at work issue?

 

Thank you for answering my questions!

 

 

[Alchemist]

Welcome to the Boards! It's great that you've joined before acquiring a dog. Keep reading and with luck and foresight you will forestall problems!

 

On getting two dogs at once: do you want them to bond to each other? or to you? Because if it's the latter, you'll need to separate them as much as possible, and spend a LOT of time working with each one (be it basic obedience, basic manners, walks) individually.

 

If it's the former, be mindful of the possibility that they might come to hate each other. Even littermates may come to that realization.

 

Can't answer to the "40 hours" issue, as my dogs both come to work with me. One of the perks of my job

 

If you get one dog now, please don't fall into the trap of thinking "oh, I've got a Border collie, they need a LOT of exercise!!!" What they need is mental stimulation - and your full attention - more than anything else. Sure, an adult dog will generally be game for anything, but overexercising a puppy could set it up for a lifetime of trouble, as you'll see if you peruse recent posts.

 

Best of luck!

[arf2184]

Only you can decide if now is the time to get a dog. Border Collies do not NEED to live on a farm. Two years is far enough off that any dog you get will have had time to bond to you.

 

How long a dog can be left alone depends on a few factors. Is the dog going to crated/indoors? Outside? Can you come home on break to let the dog out? Puppy or adult? (puppies need more frequent potty breaks and attention)

 

Barring any issues (anxiety, barking, etc), most dogs will adapt to your schedule, whatever it may be. Just remember that the dog will have been home all day with little to do. If you often find yourself tired and not wanting to do much after work, then an active dog is probably not the best thing right now. If you come home ready for the next adventure, then an active dog will likely provide you with new ways to go out (or stay in) and have fun playing and learning.

 

It is my preference to have the dogs outside when no one is here to let them out (weather permitting). Outside they can potty as needed, have water, shade, and shelter, and can entertain themselves watching birds, cats, neighbors, playing with toys, and just being dogs. Outside, they can be left for long periods without too much worry if need be (and I have a neighbor who can see them from her house who'll call or who I can call as needed). If they have to be inside, I try not to leave them for more than 6 hours. They can do overnight, but during the day I prefer that they have more frequent potty breaks. Bear has anxiety when alone for very long (without Meg or a human). I can only leave him for an hour or two before he starts howling, drooling all over, and chewing on random things.

 

It also helps to have a backup person (or two or three) who can check on your dog and let them out if needed.

 

I would not get two new dogs at the same time. I think its better to start with one and a establish a relationship before considering adding another.

[RichardH]

Some of the best advice I ever got was this from a rescue I contacted early on in my search - I went back to the drawing board after reading this (luckily that rescue and a few dog owning friends helped me find a great little dog in the end):

 

 

I think the first thing you should really think about is why you want a border collie in the first place. Do they appeal to you aesthetically? Is it because you want a smart, active dog? What is it about the breed that makes you want to live with one?

The thing about border collies is, as a general rule, they are weird. They are weird in a way that most other breeds are not, with the exception of some other herding breeds like Aussies and Kelpies and Cattle Dogs. They have to be weird by virtue of what they were created to do, so sound sensitivity, OCD, unsociability, prey drive, neuroses etc. are more common in the breed than they are not. Those of us who like living with them don’t mind this, but if you're not sure this is something that you would enjoy navigating, you need to really thing long and hard about jumping into border collie ownership because most of them are a little weird.

 

I don't mind living like with dogs like this. I like working with my dogs, teaching them new behaviours, adjusting other behaviours. There are people who like dogs, and there are border collie owners, who like pretty much everything that has to do with dogs. IOW, border collies are not pets, they are a lifestyle. They are different than having pets.

 

I would also exercise patience. This is an animal you will be living with every day for many years to come. You want to be sure you find the right match. You might also want to spend some time with someone who lives with border collies ([if] not as working dogs, as primarily companions) and watch how they handle their dogs, and see if you can approximate it yourself.

 

Then there's further questions like have you had dogs before? Do you have a car or do you live close to work? Are you planning on keeping the dog indoors while you're at work? Does your farm have livestock? Do you have a doggie daycare nearby? Any chance you can bring your dog(s) to work?

 

Also, this book helped me a whole bunch - a whole list of concrete steps to consider before and after getting a dog. Introducing the dog to friends family and other dogs and animals.

 

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/store/Love-Has-No-Age-Limit.html

 

-Rich

[gcv-border]

My one concern right now is my job. I will be working 40 hours a week (might be able to work it so that this was broken up a little more if I knew far enough ahead of time to plan it that way) I don't want my BC going crazy while I am at work. I know when I am home I will be able to devote all time and energy to her/him, but I obviously could not while I was at work. So I guess my first question is.... How long is too long to leave a BC alone?

I think you have received excellent answers above.

 

I just want to address your concern about time away while at work. This issue will depend not only on the personality of the dog/puppy you get, but also how you can manage his care.

 

I volunteer with a BC rescue, and we will adopt puppies into homes where people work a full-time job, BUT we want assurances that the first 4-6 months that the puppy will not be left alone for 8 hours a day. The adopters must come home at lunch, or arrange for a mid-day visit from a friend or dog-sitter or bring the pup to daycare (but not a good idea for a very young pup). In your situation, I think it would be an excellent idea to consider a rescue BC that is not a young puppy. You will have more than enough training and bonding to look forward to, a little less of the destructive phase (usually, but not always), and still can enjoy a very active dog. It will be less work to transition an adolescent or adult BC (not a puppy) to your work schedule.

 

I second the advice not to get two dogs/puppies at the same time. You want your dog to bond to you, not the other dog - and the bonding with you is much harder/takes more time when you are managing 2 new dogs at the same time. You can use the dog's desire to 'work' to your advantage with training mental and physical activities which also promote bonding rather than allowing two dogs to use their energy playing with each other, thus less bonding time with you.

 

If you are new to the breed, one should be enough to start with. ;^) But remember, they are like potato chips - you can't have just one.

 

Jovi

[HHSunshine]

Okay, to answer some of your questions. We have a small inside dog and two cats (one lives outside one inside). I've grown up with animals all my life and can't imagine life without them. I do not have a dog daycare nearby but my mom is nearby - the small dog is hers, the outdoor cat is a family cat, and the inside cat is mine but pretty much keeps to herself. My mom would be around the house all day so could tend to my BC while I was gone.

 

My BC would live outside in a large fenced area. I would like for my BC to bond to me, and if I would have to separate the two BC's in order for them to bond to me I think that I should just get one. Thank you for solving that piece of my puzzle. I hadn't thought about that.

 

As far as energy after work... I am always full of energy even after a day at work and need something active to entertain.

 

As far as excercising them when they are young - I had actually already read some stuff on this post warning against running and biking with puppies and advising to wait until they are grown (saying that I'll have plenty of chances to jog and bike with them when their bone structure is set). I plan to be very careful in the care of my BC, that is why I am learning all I can before I invest time and money into one.

 

As of right now my farm has no farm animals on it. It does have deer and wild game on it though. Right now some of the land is cash rented for crops. When I move there I plan to get some farm animals which is part of the reason why I am wanting a BC, but am also wanting one as a guardian and best friend to spend time with.

 

I hadn't thought about taking my B/C to work with me. I will have to do some checking but that may be a possibility. And as far as vehicle I have a truck and drive to work.

 

I hadn't decided yet whether I would get a puppy or an adult. I hope this answers your questions and helps you be able to better understand my situation. Again thank you for replying!

[Sue R]

Welcome! You seem to be reading and trying to do this right, and I commend you for that. But this bit of your post below concerns me. You will have way more issues (I believe) with a dog by having it live outside than by having it live inside, interacting with your and your household (or being crated when you can't be there).

 

A lot of people feel that a large yard or "a place to run" will result in a happy, trouble-free dog - and it won't. These dogs do not thrive on self-regulated "freedom" - a yard alone is boredom and often results in unacceptable behaviors - barking, digging, obsessive/compulsive activities (watching shadows, watching birds, fence-running), and a host of other issues. Being left outside in even the best of yards will also expose your dog to the possibility of theft or getting loose and running off when you are not home to monitor things.

 

It isn't that you *can't* keep a dog in a suitable outside kennel run (that is safe and secure) as many working dogs that have full and active lives are kept - but these dogs are not kept in isolation (usually they are part of a working farm or ranch and there are multiple dogs in multiple runs). And other than possibly encouraging unwanted behaviors (barking, repetitive behaviors like circling and those listed above), it isn't much different than crating - but I believe crating is less likely to result in unwanted behaviors than kenneling might. It isn't going to result in a sane dog you will want to live with if you keep one by itself in that sort of situation unless you do make sure to provide physical and (more importantly) mental stimulation.

 

I work part-time and when I got my first several pups, I either worked seasonally or permanent part-time (which can be full-time at times). I crate-trained each pup, was able to take off a week or two when each pup was very young, and brought each of them up in the house. It can be done, particularly if you have a trusted neighbor or youth who can give the pup a mid-day break outside with walking and potty time, and maybe a bit of playtime. You provide the same early in the day and after work,

 

I guess my feeling is that you either get a pup, young dog, or whatever if you are ready now (or soon) to put in the time and effort to interact with and train it (and plan on crate-training) - or you postpone that until you are in such a position to do so.

 

Just my opinions. Best wishes!

 

My BC would live outside in a large fenced area. I would like for my BC to bond to me, and if I would have to separate the two BC's in order for them to bond to me I think that I should just get one. Thank you for solving that piece of my puzzle. I hadn't thought about that.

[juliepoudrier]

A lot of people feel that a large yard or "a place to run" will result in a happy, trouble-free dog - and it won't. These dogs do not thrive on self-regulated "freedom" - a yard alone is boredom and often results in unacceptable behaviors - barking, digging, obsessive/compulsive activities (watching shadows, watching birds, fence-running), and a host of other issues. Being left outside in even the best of yards will also expose your dog to the possibility of theft or getting loose and running off when you are not home to monitor things.

 

^^This. Having plenty of space in a yard + boredom could result in a wrecked yard, and escaped dog, or worse. I am one of the sort of people who will not leave my dogs outside all day unattended. Too many bad things can happen, including people taking your dog. A secure kennel is one thing, but loose in the yard is just not something I'm comfortable doing, and I live in the country where presumably my dogs would be safe from passersby. But of course several people on this very thread successfully leave their dogs outside or give them access to outside when they aren't home.

 

I recently took a full time job after working from home for four years. I can tell you that my dogs would just lay about the house while I worked during the day. I could certainly toss them outside, but I have only one dog who prefers to be out there vs. hanging out in the house with me, even if I'm completely ignoring them while I work. YMMV.

 

I especially wouldn't leave a puppy outside all day alone. I put my pup in an extra large crate with plenty of absorbent material (newspaper, horse stall pellets, whatever) that the pup could use if necessary. Although it's not ideal, it hasn't been bad for me or the pup. She used to go to the bathroom in her crate, but now at 4 months she is able to hold it all day (she has a potty command and I always take her out by herself and get her to go potty right before I leave for work). In the past, I've worked at places where I could safely take a pup to work and leave it crated in the van (with the van wide open if it was during warm weather). I could probably actually do that now, except that it's just too hot to do so. If the new job had happened at the same time as a puppy in spring or fall I probably just would have taken her with me and gotten her out at lunch time/breaks.

 

Dogs are adaptable and will be flexible about your schedule. I do try not to be too late getting home, and if I'm going to be I'll call a friend to go over and let dogs out.

 

I agree that two at the same time isn't the best choice. You can get one now and then add one in a couple of years.

 

J.

[GentleLake]

A lot of people feel that a large yard or "a place to run" will result in a happy, trouble-free dog - and it won't. These dogs do not thrive on self-regulated "freedom" - a yard alone is boredom and often results in unacceptable behaviors - barking, digging, obsessive/compulsive activities (watching shadows, watching birds, fence-running), and a host of other issues. Being left outside in even the best of yards will also expose your dog to the possibility of theft or getting loose and running off when you are not home to monitor things.

 

It isn't that you *can't* keep a dog in a suitable outside kennel run (that is safe and secure) as many working dogs that have full and active lives are kept - but these dogs are not kept in isolation (usually they are part of a working farm or ranch and there are multiple dogs in multiple runs). And other than possibly encouraging unwanted behaviors (barking, repetitive behaviors like circling and those listed above), it isn't much different than crating - but I believe crating is less likely to result in unwanted behaviors than kenneling might. It isn't going to result in a sane dog you will want to live with if you keep one by itself in that sort of situation unless you do make sure to provide physical and (more importantly) mental stimulation.

 

^^Thanks for saying this, Sue! I'd been typing an equally long response about these very same issues and then somehow lost it, so I gave up in disgust and left the computer for a while.

 

The one thing I'd want to add, is that there've been reports coming in from all over the country for the past few years of organized groups of people going through areas stealing dogs. I've even seen a video of a couple guys drving up in a van and stealing a good sized dog right out of a fenced yard. It took less than 2 minutes! Where I live, several dogs were stolen right off of people's front porches. And you know these dogs are most likely being used as bait dogs. I don't think I could live with myself if I canme home and my dogs had been stolen because of my carelessness.

 

As far as getting 2 dogs, the advice about getting 2 at once is spot on. However, 2 dogs can be great company for each other, especially when when people work. (2 or more dogs can also end up in a lot more trouble than just one when they're left ouside alone.) Just make sure that the first dog has bonded to you before you get the second. And then you'll still need to work with both dogs individually for a while. With the first one to make sure she or he doesn't feel abandoned, and the second so it will bond with you, too.

[HHSunshine]

Thank you all for your input! I am really thankful to have experienced people to talk to and get advice from! You have all been very very helpful! I feel like I can make a much wiser and more informed decision now!

[Joe Anne]

gcv-border....you are too funny! I LOVE ... "remember they are like potato chips..you can't have just one!! "

 

I have only had 1 BC at a time so far (along with multiple mix breeds at one time).Thing is when I was telling a fellow BC person at one our herding clinics, that I will be picking up my new BC puppy soon and that it would be the first time that I have had 2 BC's in the house at one time...he said, "uh oh!, well it's all downhill from here!".... Naturally I said uh, what is that supposed to mean! He said hmmmm, you start with 1, before ya know it you have 2 and on and on! I cracked up! BUT, he just may be right on! LOL!

[Kelliwic Border Collies]

Some of the best advice I ever got was this from a rescue I contacted early on in my search

They have to be weird by virtue of what they were created to do, so sound sensitivity, OCD, unsociability, prey drive, neuroses etc. are more common in the breed than they are not.

 

 

Totally disagree with this portion of what Richard received from the rescue. They don't "have to be weird by virtue of what they were created to do," and it is completely untrue that the issues mentioned are "more common in the breed than they are not." The issues are probably more common in Border Collies than in many other breeds, but I disagree with the implication that most Border Collies have these issues.

 

 

As of right now my farm has no farm animals on it. [snip] When I move there I plan to get some farm animals which is part of the reason why I am wanting a BC, but am also wanting one as a guardian and best friend to spend time with.

 

If you intend to use your Border Collie to help out with the livestock it will be very important for you to do your homework to find a breeder who uses their own dogs to move and handle their own livestock, and who is known for producing good working dogs.

 

Good luck with your research!

[HHSunshine]

Thank you Megan!

[mum24dog]

Totally disagree with this portion of what Richard received from the rescue. They don't "have to be weird by virtue of what they were created to do,"

"Weird" is just something different from your personal norm.

 

I find BCs weird on the whole but I'm pretty sure most of my friends who have multiple BCs (and possibly only BCs) think their dogs are the "normal" ones.