kingdecor Posted October 19, 2002 Report Share Posted October 19, 2002 hi i am a keen agility fan from scotland and compete with my 4year old collie had a few successes , the problem is i am just starting with the new pup he is 14mnths and keen as mustard but only at 100miles an hour i need to find brakes for him he wont slow down and hits everything hard and fast tried training on lead but he gets all upset and jumps off things any ideas kenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla1 Posted October 19, 2002 Report Share Posted October 19, 2002 Go back for some obedience classes, especially attention classes, at the same time you are doing agility. Use those techniques learned in obedience to manage your dog's speed. Train to "targets", something like small paper plates with a treat placed at the end of the contacts so he will wait for you there and regroup. Keeps them from jumpping off and missing contacts and gives you time to focus them on the next sequence. Phase them out later when he is solid on the wait there. [This message has been edited by Cholla1 (edited 10-19-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpNatEm Posted October 19, 2002 Report Share Posted October 19, 2002 In NADAC here we all love Janet Mabrey and Mariah and her "lie down and wait".Mariah is a bullet and takes my breath away watching her.On the contacts Janet says "lie down and wait" and she does then does her zooms off.With the contacts you absolutely must teach your dog to stop,wait or whatever command you find your pup will listen to.In training don't just let yor dog fly.On lead make your dog literally stop at the end and stay until you say go.With my Belle during practice I made her just stop until I say go.In practice we take our time because at the trials she flies.Janet says 'lie down and wait' and with my Belle I say wait and touch and make her stop period on the contacts during training.In training I don't care how slow she goes because it's all about teaching control. Sue Barta BartasBorders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdecor Posted October 20, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2002 Thank you i am actually in the process of teaching the target training method with little sucess , he knows what the target is and gets it on his way as his rear end passes over his head , funny to watch but he just doesnt get the slow down bit , he will however lie down when he has came off the contact and never misses that way but is this a bad thing to let go as if he at some point later wants to jump of could be a problem , This dog is something else and i will have a few posts looking for advice that you can be sure of , also his behaviour is not all it should be as i posted in genral post forum under the title chaser perhaps i will take him to obedience for a wee while thanks again for the help and i will stick with the target training kenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted October 20, 2002 Report Share Posted October 20, 2002 Hi. This sounds like my Jack. At agility the trainer wanted us to encourage and enthuse our dogs. But mine, I encourage wait and calm first - but the trainer made us do it his way, so Jack went full speed, each obstacle I did sat wait - but too late. So he jumps and jumps back and jumps again so that he completes the course having done each jump three times. Now agility is finished until next summer - so we hope by keeping up the training we will find I have a more controled dog next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted October 20, 2002 Report Share Posted October 20, 2002 Hi from down under Down Under (Tasmania). ADAC trainers (like NADAC) we had a couple of weeks ago want the dogs to work really fast and independent of handler. So they teach them carefully on harness and long lead (held by trainer) set up so that dog can?t make a mistake ? handler is at the end of the obstacle (which might be a series of jumps or a single obstacle) with rewards ? then progress to target ? handler doesn?t run/walk close to dog. For the contact obstacles, they back chain ? i.e. teach the stop on the end first ? they call it teaching 2 on/2 off ? 2 feet on the grass/floor, two feet on the bottom of the obstacle - and reward this, associating the name of the obstacle with that position, rather than with the beginning of the obstacle. When the dog is rock solid with this position, then he is allowed to go over the obstacle ? their idea is that with the dog working independently ahead or far to the side of the handler, the command ?scramble? or ?A frame? say means the 2-on/2-off position on that obstacle, and the obstacle itself is the way of getting to that stationary position where the dog has been used to being rewarded. Reading this back over, I?m not sure that it makes sense unless you?ve seen it being done. It made sense at the workshop! Maybe NADAC (North American Dog Agility Council) have some videos which might help. In any case, obedience training is really important in getting control over your dog in general and getting the dog to pay attention rather than just doing his own thing ? doesn?t have to be heavy, but the dog needs to learn that you mean what you say, and that it will happen. I would think that being able to concentrate on obedience over the winter will really help to settle your pup down, without affecting his speed. My belief ? a fast dog will always be a fast dog ? or that?s what I?m hoping with my boy ? now 9 months. He loved his first taste of agility at the ADAC workshop, and wasn?t worried at all about the fact that he was restrained ? the harness and long line technique seems to me to allow the dog to be much more naturally balanced than me with the lead on beside him. Only problem is you need an experienced trainer to be handling the long line. ------------------ Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted October 21, 2002 Report Share Posted October 21, 2002 Sounds like you've gotten some great advice. If the dog doesn't have a "wait" or "stop", you're doomed! I too have a speed demon....and one "we did this, don't you do it" piece of info. Mine did not want to slow down on contacts either, and couldn't be bothered to stop and eat anything. HOWEVER, what I managed to do (quite unintentionally of course) was slow her down ALL THE WAY DOWN. This cost precious seconds and was just painful to watch: she obviously didn't know what her job was on the contacts. I'm working with another woman locally, and with her young dog, we're doing what lots of folks have suggested (but I didn't know enough when I started mine). That is, backchaining the contacts. It does take a "stay" or "wait" - but the dog learns the POSITION of stopping with two feet on/two feet off (if that's what you want) before he ever worries about the REST of the contact obstacle. This takes time - and most novices just want the dog on the obstacle. Since you have such a young one, you should be working the contacts at quite low heights anyway - and if you're willing to go back, leave them out for awhile, and just train the position, I'll bet you'll have a winner before too long! I'd think at this age, you might be training this position for a month or so, before ever going back to the full obstacle performance. Other things that will be useful for the zoomer are directionals - you can use "left" and "right" (though in the heat of a course, I can't possibly remember these, so I haven't taught them - but there might be an occasional use for them....), or "here" and "out," as well as lots of positions around your body - things like close, side, around, behind, etc. These might be easier to teach right now - since you have the speed and they are MOVING commands. But you will need control too! They'll help later when your rocket is headed off in the wrong direction! Best of luck - let us know how it goes! diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted October 21, 2002 Report Share Posted October 21, 2002 Ah, yes, I can see that you would need an expert with the line or you would get all tied up ! My pup loves these activities and I wish there was a good club around here, as I need teaching as much as he does ! Jan. ------------------ All Creatures Great and Small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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