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Just introducing myself. I don't have a border collie just yet. I've had mixes and all sorts of other dogs. Currently have a Chow and a poodle mix. Just recently had to put down my 16 year old GSD/Chow/ BC mix. She definitely acted like a border collie and learned everything I taught her super fast. I've wanted to get a pure bred border collie for about 10 years now. I've done a lot of research and think I'm pretty ready to get a pup. All of my previous dogs have been rescues so this time I'm going with a puppy from a breeder. Only problem is I live in Southern California. I would prefer to get a dog from someone local(within 3-4 hours), so I can check out the parents and how they were raised... But wouldn't be too opposed to having a puppy shipped to me from a reliable breeder. Not too many sheepdog trials around here. The closest one to me is coming up soon but I won't be able to make it. I plan on doing obedience, agility, frisbee, flyball(maybe, if I can find somewhere to do it), hiking/backpacking, SAR(I work in EMS and would really like to get into SAR).

 

I don't plan on getting one until after summer. I'll be working m-f 7-4 all summer and I dont think that would be very fair to a puppy. After summer though I'll only be working 2-3 days a week but they'll be 8-24 hour shifts. Usually it will be 12 hour shifts(some are night shifts as well so those wouldn't be a problem). I have no problem getting up earlier before shifts to play with and exercise puppy, mostly just fun learning games, mental stimulation, fetch until at least a year.

 

I was planning on confining it to an xpen + crate until it proves trustworthy enough to be left in my room. Has anyone every tried litterbox training a dog? Like the litterboxes they have for dogs with the turf in them not like the ones for cats. Does it have any detrimental effects on Housetraining/pottytraining? I would most likely have someone take him out at least once during the day, someone is usually always home at. I know a great dog walker that goes to the same dogpark I go to. Would this be cruel to the puppy? I do have a large backyard with an 8 foot security fence... but locking it outside all day probably isn't very nice for the dog either.

 

Has anyone here tried using ASL as visual cues for tricks? I'm not deaf, but know ASL.

 

What do you guys think about waiting until a dog is mature to neuter? I was planning on waiting until at least the growth plates close. Is it worth it to wait? Should it be done earlier/later?

 

Puppy vaccinations are important... But what about the rest... Does it need to be done annually? every 2-3 years? I know they must get the rabies every certain number of years.

 

Pet insurance? I've looked into it... Is it worth it? Has anyone used it? I kind of like VPI.

 

 

I know it's a lot of questions, but there's so much conflicting information online that I figured I would just ask.

 

 

Thanks,

Jeboa :-)

 

 

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Leaving a pup alone for 12 hours is unfair. You would need to make some sort of arrangements for the pup's care or instead consider purchasing or adopting an adult dog. I don't like leaving a pup alone for more than 4 to 6 hours until it is at least 12 weeks old, then I start leaving them crated for up to 8 hours.

 

Who is usually at home? Are those people willing to take on the task of raising a puppy? Are they responsible and on board with the same training methods? Are they ok with the fact that puppies often howl for long periods of time while adjusting to their new home?

 

I've used litter boxes when raising a litter of pups. They learn at about 3 to 4 weeks of age to go potty in there instead of all over their pen. However, right at 7 to 8 weeks of age I start encouraging them to potty outside. If you allow them to use a litter box much beyond that it is harder to house break them.

 

There is no reason you can't use sign language hand signals, but it's been my experience that if you want to do a lot of distance work with a dog, it's best to discourage them from relying too much on visual cues. You want them listening for a verbal signal.

 

If you want to wait for maturity to neuter, I would suggest considering a male. Then you don't have to worry about heat cycles.

 

How often vaccines are given depends on the individual vaccine and whether or not you booster in time.

 

I wouldn't buy VPI insurance. Too much fine print that allows them to not pay on a claim. A friend of mine has Embrace and is really happy with it. Trupanion has rated well.

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Leaving a pup alone for 12 hours is unfair. You would need to make some sort of arrangements for the pup's care or instead consider purchasing or adopting an adult dog. I don't like leaving a pup alone for more than 4 to 6 hours until it is at least 12 weeks old, then I start leaving them crated for up to 8 hours.

I wouldn't let the puppy be along for 12 hours. I could also just take night shifts for the first few months having the pup... I was also planning on the days that I do have to work 12 hour shifts just having the dog walker I mentioned take puppy for the day(she does that too) I've seen and interacted with every dog that she's had/has(and her personal dogs), I like her training methods. I'm not really sure about how great "doggie daycares" are so she seems like she would be a better option. But again... I am willing to adjust my schedule to make it better for the puppy. I could even just work 8 hour night shifts.

 

Who is usually at home? Are those people willing to take on the task of raising a puppy? Are they responsible and on board with the same training methods? Are they ok with the fact that puppies often howl for long periods of time while adjusting to their new home?

Housemates, cousin(2 of them work 8-5, one works 5-late, so there's always someone home). Yes and very excited to have a puppy, in a few months. They're pretty responsible/reliable, onboard with the same training methods but might need some training themselves. and yes.

 

There is no reason you can't use sign language hand signals, but it's been my experience that if you want to do a lot of distance work with a dog, it's best to discourage them from relying too much on visual cues. You want them listening for a verbal signal.

I was just thinking handsigns for obedience and trick training. Just because it's a lot easier than having to come up with different visual cues. Verbal cues would definitely be the more "important" of the two, or at least the one more emphasis is put on.

If you want to wait for maturity to neuter, I would suggest considering a male. Then you don't have to worry about heat cycles.

I was already pretty dead set on a male. But the question was more is there validity to waiting until maturity? I mean.. I know if you "neutered" a human at 6 months they would definitely have issues maturing because of the lack of hormones in the body. So why wouldn't a dog, or any animal, have the same issues.

 

I wouldn't buy VPI insurance. Too much fine print that allows them to not pay on a claim. A friend of mine has Embrace and is really happy with it. Trupanion has rated well.

Yeah.. I wasn't too sure about VPI. I hadn't read very many good reviews. I was looking at Healthy paws as well, but was hoping for something that would cover vaccines, boosters, and annual physicals(all of those aren't necessary for them to cover, just a plus). I will definitely look into the other ones. That's why I asked

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And food wise. Has anyone had problems raw feeding puppies. I mainly feed raw and if I feed kibble I usually use Acana. Thinking of switching to TOTW(because it's cheaper...) any thoughts? I don't Have to switch, they don't go through that much kibble, but is it worth it too feed it?

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Hi and welcome...as a Professional "pet dog" Obedience Trainer and BC Mom, multiple times as well as MANY Heinze 57 varieties! LOL! I agree with Liz P on what she stated about leaving a pup alone. Very important to crate train but hours left alone in crate is crucial. I would not leave a pup under 3-4 months more than 2-4 hours alone or in crate (increase with age). In Southern California, (how Southern BTW?)...I used to live in Oxnard (Ventura Co.), if weather is conducive (not hot) I think an outdoor pen would be better as pup ages rather than ,many hours inside. Do other dogs have outdoor access as well? I also agree that with your time away, perhaps an older BC would suit you better???

BC's are incredibly intelligent and ambitious dogs that CAN make good house pets as well as stock dogs. It is ALL the way you discipline, exercise, and above all stimulate their drive/their brain! If you do not give a BC a JOB, they will find one.

Don't give up on finding Herding Clinics(even if you have to travel a bit, they are ususally 3 days and well worth it). They are all over the place. Here on the BC Boards is a great place to find them closer to you. Even if you only get to attend 1 or 2 a year, it is well worth it for your Dog and you. Even as a Professional trainer and early retiree ! home all day, I found my Phoenix boy to be a handful. I got him straight off a working sheep farm. Both parents on site...both very strong herding drives and working dogs. As a matter of fact, he was perfect in his obedience, but at about 12-16 months old, it appeared all his training went out the window! He was becoming "uncontrollable" . I went on these boards and asked for help. I got many responses saying, "get him on sheep", or "get him doing herding training" !!! With help from everyone here on the boards, I lucked out and found a clinician/trainer about 1 1/2 hrs from me doing a weekend clinic. I was warned about the seriousness and very strict discipline (not my positive/reward based obedience training!") that I and Phoenix, would experience, BUT, it took exactly 1 day to turn my boy around. He was becoming aggressive and snapping and jumping at all dogs and some people!!!! The first day of our 3 day clinic, BAM, whacked a couple of times with a flexible stock stick when he lunged at another dog! (did not hurt him, just a MAJOR surprise), and ever since then we have been on track and he and I have been much happier. At the end of each segment in the ring, he always went right to the trainer on his own for a final "pat on the head", no fear... just blatant respect. He finally had someone who KNEW him, and "respectfully", disciplined him and challenged his brain...he was good to go! He NEEDED to be with sheep!!! and a trainer (and me) who REALLY knew these dogs!!!! We have been going1-3 times a yr. for quite a few years now and he loves it and so do I.

Word of serious caution, please do not get a BC from a AKC breeder. (my personal and many others opinion).

Neutering is a personal option. I too would prefer to wait, unless I have a female. I do not want to wait and deal with a heat cycle.

As far as ASL....by all means I would train for that. I am not deaf but studied ASL in college and used it with my GSD for years. A BC, would pick it up quickly! sounds like a fun challenge!!

Shots....I am serious about over vaccinating my dogs. I actually am raising (Bree my Terrier mix girl), my 1st ever dog vaccination free except for the puppy shots she got before I brought her home. I do the 3 yr. rabies (only because it is state law). She is now 5 going on 6 y/o, and doing well. I have her tittered once a yr. Check with your Vet about getting titers instead of yearly shots.

Don't know about the Pet Insurance per say. I have heard that many insurances will not cover what "they determine" to be Breed Specific "issues"... so can't help ya there!

Either way, you are doing the right thing about checking BEFORE getting a pure bred BC. They are incredible dogs, but MUST be in the care of the right person. Too many of these dogs end up in rescues or shelters, so please be very sure this is what you want and MOST OF ALL.....HAVE THE TIME, ENERGY AND PATIENCE ,for.

BC Boards will open up a whole range of opinions, ideas, tips, etc.... so this is a really good start.

Best of luck.... JoeAnne and my 8 yr old BC boy Phoenix

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As for pet insurance companies, I really didn't like VPI after reading the fine print. They really price their pay outs for treatments low, and I have heard some negative stories. I am planning on going with Embrace, I've heard nothing but good about them.

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Again, totally willing and able to adjust my schedule to make it better for a puppy. I'll probably just end up working night shifts, either 12 hr like 8pm-8am or 8 hr like 8pm-4am, 9pm-5am, this is also only three days or nights a week not 5. Puppy will be sleeping.... hopefully. And I can be home all day. It would definitely be able to be taken out to go potty if need be during night time. Or I could just work normal 8am-4pm 5 days a week, if that's better.

 

If I Have the yard fully fenced is an outdoor pen required? Would that be better anyways than being inside in a pen or room no matter how many hours it is?

 

The other dogs have access to the backyard whenever they want. The poodle would rather stay right under my feet or right next to me all day but when I'm not home would rather be outside with the other dog. The chow doesn't actually like to be inside... Or at least she acts like she doesn't, when she's inside she'll just sit at the back door and wait, occasionally let out a single oof, to be let out... she doesn't usually come more than 15 feet into the house. Not because we don't let her, she just prefers to be outside. Is it mean to let a dog that wants to be outside, stay outside? She sleeps out there too, we have dog houses with bedding outside but she chooses not to use them. The poodle would rather sleep inside, so she does. We don't have a dog door we just let them in and out.

 

I live in South Orange County/North SD County. By the coast.

 

I was definitely going to avoid an AKC breeder. Another reason why I came here looking for suggestions or references... I was going to go with either ABCA or just a farm bred working dog if it's not registered. I will definitely be doing a lot of obedience and trick training, frisbee and lots of fetch, hopefully flyball(if I can find a team). I would LOVE to be able to herd some sheep and have the dog do what it's bred to do. And would be willing to drive a few hours to do it a few times a year, closer and I would definitely do it more often. The closest usbcha sheepdog trial I could find is in westminster, which is the one I can't make it to later this month.

 

I am strongly considering just doing the first puppy shots then just titters instead of annual shots. Then of course the rabies when it's needed. My vet will do the titters instead.

 

I took a look at Embrace and it does seem a lot better than the other insurances i've looked at.

 

I figure if I've wanted a BC for ten years and I've been able to wait until I'm in a good solid place financially and everything, it's probably safe to say this isn't just an impulse buy. I know this dog could easily be with me for the next 15+ years

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Based on your reported willingness to adjust your schedule, you - and the puppy - ought to get through this together.

 

Having said that, I would NOT let the puppy out in the yard unsupervised with adult dogs. (i.e. while you are away at work) It is hard to put an exact age on when unsupervised playtime in the back yard is OK as it will depend on the dog. Some BCs are real pests when they are younger. I don't think I would have trusted my boy outside until he was at least 16-18 months old.

 

And of course, you will have to consider the other dogs' personalities too. Despite the best efforts, sometimes one ends up with a troublemaker in a multi-dog household. You will just have to wait and see how the situation develops.

 

Jovi

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