5 Mo. old injury advice

[Moo2U]

I could use some advice please. My 5 month old (Isabelle) woke up 10 days ago limping badly and toe touching on right hind leg. I really don't know what happened. She has been chasing the frisbee (no jumping or leaping whatsoever) for weeks with no issues. It always hits the ground and rolls. She chases and rolls as she grabs it. Very puppy like, nothing hard on her. The night before I did allow her up on the bed for the first time. In her exuberance, she has leaped up and jumped down from the bed a few times in about a second so she certainly can handle the height. She was on the floor when I woke up but I did not see anything wrong at the time. An hour or so later, I saw her limping and she was in pain. It was Sunday so I took her to emergency. The exam did not indicate a break so they gave me tramadol. I saw my Vet the next day, Monday. He took 2 xrays, saw no break but thinks it was the knee. Prescribed Rimadyl for a week. He only said try to keep her off it for 3-4 days which I did. I wish he told me that she would need more time than that...

 

By Friday she was looking much better and we went on several medium walks and she did very well. I was sure things were getting better. She is crated at night now again religiously but the next day Saturday, she was limping a little again. Although she has been crate trained she had been so good that I started to leave the crate door open so she can sleep in my room on the floor. I continued to keep her inactive for 2 more days at which time again she was showing signs of good improvement. Minutes later, she started the pent up running they do when they have too much energy. I tried immediately to stop her but I could not catch her, she darted away and ran around the living room, kitchen area for about 30-40 seonds, as fast as she could indoors. When I got hold of her, she seemed to relax. But within a minute or two she practically went comatose from the injury. She was clearly in pain, eyes drooping, breathing funny, hardly moving. She had been given painkiller and Rimadyl only 2 hours earlier so I just kept checking on her. She did not move most of the night but was walking again in the morning but unstable.

 

Back to the Vet again this past Monday. She's examined again and no real change from the initial assessment. She is walking but impaired and a little unstable. Now Wednesday she has been completely rested again for 3 days. Still taking Rimadyl and Tramadol. She is eating and drinking. The leg is sensitive and she will snap at me if I try to touch it which she never has done before. I keep her in the crate most of the time but she is very unhappy about it. I also keep her tethered to me a lot when I am home so she's not completely couped up. The lack of exercise is hard enough on her. She's totally stressing and so am I. I have been walking her to go potty but that's about it. The vet says 7 days of crate rest, then 5 minute walks to see how she does. Then she wants me to check in with her. I have already done a bit more than her suggestion as she MUST walk a little or she will try to bolt out of the crate every time I open it. We started doing 5 minute walks today and she does not seem to have any problems with it. We are on day 3 now of no injuries. She seems reasonably happy and wants to play, etc. She is however licking me everywhere a lot which is also completely new for her.

 

I guess I am asking for some feedback on a possible timeline on what I should do and when. How much walking, how much rest, how long before I try to get to do anything resembling running? Should I just do as the Vet says and crate her almost 24/7? The last thing I want is for her to be injured again but I also don't want to go so slow that she loses her mind in the process. Or me lose mine.

 

Trying to be thorough. Sorry for such a long post.

[gcv-border]

Without knowing the specific injury, it would be very hard for anyone to tell you how long to rest, etc. But in my experience personally, and from reading the experiences of others, you should probably crate rest your dog (as you are doing) longer rather than shorter. It is ALWAYS longer than you want it to be. Based on your description, she keeps reinjuring whatever is wrong. IMHO, the 3-4 days of rest are nowhere near long enough. Maybe more like 2-3 or 4-6 weeks, with a slow introduction back to walks and exercise.

 

BUT, IMHO, if I were in your shoes, I would locate a vet with a specialty in orthopedics or a certified rehab vet. As well-intentioned as your regular vet is, a general vet does not have the specialized training to accurately diagnose and treat many of the soft tissue and joint injuries. The rehab vet should be able to give you a diagnosis and suggest a treatment plan which will probably include extended rest, and possibly anti-inflammatories or remedial exercises or laser treatments or acupuncture or ?? Hopefully not surgery. If so, get a second opinion.

 

Good Luck,

Jovi

[juliepoudrier]

Yes, do as the vet says. I'd probably also go for a second opinion. If nothing showed on the radiograph, then it's possibly a soft tissue injury and those can take quite a while to heal. But each time you let her go back to running and playing and she reinjures it, you are likely adding to the total amount of time she'll need for healing.

 

IME with various injured dogs, letting them go back to activity too soon *always* has a bad result.

 

Most recently, my main work dog was on again-off again lame last fall. Each time he went lame, I'd put him up for a little while, but when he seemed sound, I'd let him go back to doing whatever he wanted, and working him. Then I worked back-to-back trials in October and he was dead lame--not even tramadol would touch it. At that point I took him to the vet, who diagnosed a biceps injury. We sent the radioggraph to a specialist, who diagnosed specifically biceps tendonitis. Shortly thereafter, I took him to my rehab vet, who seemed to think that he might also have a partially detached biceps.

 

At that point I realized that by letting him go as soon as he seemed better I was exacerbating his problem because he wasn't truly healed. Each time he re-injured it, the injury was a bit worse than the time before. Had I continued on that path, his biceps tendon probably would have detached completely.

 

So, I put him up for four months (sorry, you probably don't want to hear that). For the first 8 weeks, he was on strict crate rest and leash walked to go potty. After that time, I gave him more freedom, but he was not allowed outside with the other dogs or in any situation where he might race around and do any sort of sharp turns/cutting horse moves. (By the point I was also able to take him for walks, leashed, to rebuild muscle without risking any craziness.)

 

By month four, I was using him again, but only for driving. I allowed him outside with me while doing chores and with only one other dog so there was no play racing or foolishness. After taking the time to do it right, he has been sound. He worked four long days at the Bluegrass without a signle lame step and I haven't seen him the least bit gimpy since his long lay off.

 

Apparently I'm a slow learner, because this is not the first time I've found that if I didn't follow the crate rest advice I ended up with a dog that reinjured itself, which of course ultimately just prolongs the whole healing process. I use pain killers/anit-inflammatories minimally, largely because I don't want the dog feeling too good and of course because there are potential side effects.

 

Anyway, I would certainly get a second opinion just so you're more clear on what the problem really is and then no matter how frustrating it is for you and her, adhere to the crate rest schedule advised by the vet. If there's a rehab vet near you, it wouldn't hurt to do a consultation and make a plan for bringing her back to full fitness in a coordinated and careful way to reduce the risk of re-injury as well.

 

J.

[rushdoggie]

I will second the "needs weeks not days" of rest graduating to leash walks.

[Tiga's_mom]

Did the vet do a drawer test? Sounds suspiciously like an ACL tear. Tiga was 6 when he tore his and had to have it repaired surgically. Sue has been keeping a journal in this forum about her experience with an ACL tear with Celt. IF that's what you're dealing with, the recovery, like everyone else has said, is more like months not days. It took Tiga a year to get back to normal. I also think you should see an ortho vet for a second opinion and ask for the drawer test.

[mum24dog]

Did the vet do a drawer test? Sounds suspiciously like an ACL tear.

 

The toe touching and the instability rang alarm bells for me.

 

Maybe a partial rupture in this case.

 

I'm not a fan of throwing heavy duty painkillers like Tramadol at unidentified injuries since masking the pain can cause further damage by encouraging the dog to use the affected part. A short course of Rimadyl is fine for most minor soft tissue injuries but I've never had it prescribed for more than about 3 days for mine. I like to know what is going on and use as little pain relief as I can get away with for my dogs and myself.

 

Definitely a visit to a specialist should be considered.

[Moo2U]

Thank you all for your input and suggestions. I will cut back on the painkiller but likely finish the Rimadyl just in case. Can you offer some suggestions on how to drain her energy level or calm her? I have read a lot about obedience and that it stimulates them almost as much as physical exercise but she's young and we did not get all that far yet. Also I did not think sitting, rolling, or any repetetive motion would be too good for her right now. I do spend some time with her commands but it doesn't take very long to run through the simpler stuff a few times. Can't keep treating too much or she will gain weight. The Vet also suggested I give her half of a 25mg. Benadryl to act as a very mild sedative. That along with the Tramadol she thought would make her sleepy. Not so much... Comments welcome...

 

Last night was the worst so far in regards to her mental state. She cried a lot during the night and woke me up early too. Her crate is 3 feet from my bed and she quickly learned it was quiet and comfortable for her. She had no issues going in when I told her (usually) but now I put her in so often that she is starting to dislike being in it.

 

I think she is showing signs of improvement as I occasionally try to gently touch the leg. Today she only pulled it away slowly and did not flinch or snap at me. I did it a few times and it seems less sensitive. I live in Los Angeles and there is an advanced care center in Santa Monica. I will make an appointment today so we can get a better evaluation and likely some therapy and home care suggestions. I do not think a drawer test was done. Perhaps they will do that test at the CARE center.

 

Thanks again for your help. Nice to know you are out there and willing to share.

[Sue R]

I have been keeping a journal of my experiences with Celt, who initially seems to have injured his ACL over three years ago. Our vet, then and again this year, used the drawer test to diagnose the tear. I would recommend checking it out - even a partial tear, which can seem to heal with rest and anti-inflammatories, will result in some instability and arthritic changes over time. But, if it is very minor, rest and medication might do the trick. Your specialist can advise you after exam and/or xrays.

 

Very best wishes!

[2 Devils]

Since I had to deal with something very similar with my 5 month old puppy - my advice.

 

1. Crate rest for at least 2 weeks with limited walks. Do obedience exercises - work the brain - teach tricks. It will help. Also, a lot of chews as well. Keep the pup on leash at all times so you can stop the zoomies. You could also try icing the area and since it has been awhile you can also use heat.

 

2. Trip's diagnosis was a soft tissue injury of the knee. The xrays showed no breaks and the growth plate was intact. He hurt his knee when he thought he was a big dog and tried to jump onto the back of the chaise lounge from the floor. They drawer test was also negative. He missed and landed on his hip/knee area I think. I did not see how he actually landed since I was not expecting him to do it. He would not use the leg at all for about 5 days.

 

3. We started with just rimadyl and then added tramadol. After about day 7 we stopped the rimadyl but kept him on the tramadol (1/2 the dose) for another couple days. It has been 3 weeks or so and he is about 99%. The only time I see an issue is when he is going down the hill and he does it all 3 legs.

 

4. We still took him to puppy kindergarten class per the instructors recommendation. She is also a vet tech at the ortho surgeon's in the area. She mentioned that 5 month old puppies will have to do something horribly to tear the CCL (ACL). She says it does not happen often.

 

Hope this helps.

[gcv-border]

As far as how to keep your pup from getting too bored and frustrated - there have been several past threads (in the General Border Collie Discussion category, I think) with regard to how to keep these high energy dog entertained while on crate rest. I would start with searching for "crate rest". There were some excellent suggestions. Perhaps someone else can provide a link(s) to the previous threads.

 

Good Luck,

Jovi

[Pippin's person]

Freeze Kongs and let her work on them--a well-layered and frozen Kong can keep a dog entertained and occupied for half an hour or longer. Teach tiny tricks (like leave it) that don't require much movement. You might also find some of the toys that work the pup's mind useful.

 

You might also try ice or heat on the muscle--if it's a muscle pull, that can help. Our rehab vet suggested 15 minutes ice followed by 15 minutes heat (I think--honestly I don't remember exactly)

 

It's tough for sure, so sympathies there. My dog pulled his hamstring in Feb. and I rested him for 8 weeks, did laser treatment and chiropractic adjustment. Today, he has come up lame again after months of soundness , so if he's still lame after a week-end of rest, we'll be paying the rehab vet another visit.

[Maralynn]

Can't keep treating too much or she will gain weight. The Vet also suggested I give her half of a 25mg. Benadryl to act as a very mild sedative. That along with the Tramadol she thought would make her sleepy. Not so much... Comments welcome...

 

 

I'd probably skip the benedryl if that's all you're giving her. I used to give my 40# dog 2 25mg benedryl at once for allergies and it did nothing at all to sedate her.

 

I'd be feeding her all of her meal frozen in a kong. Wet the kibble and let it set 'til mushy (or add in canned food) then stuff it in kongs and freeze. That should give you at least 3-4 kongs a day that you can give her without any worries about extra calories.

[Moo2U]

More invaluable information. My mind must be clouded from stress since I was well aware of the Kongs but the ideas are great! Mushy food frozen in the Kong - excellent! I figured the Benadryl was doing nothing so no point in continuing it. All great suggestions. Thanks everyone and I do mean everyone!!