Do young BCs suffer from ADD

[scullywags]

So my boy is 2 hes been training for agility off & on since he was acquired at 4 months

target training backing come to heel ect now doing sequences and some course work

well he seems to be getting bored if I have toy in hand hes all for whatevers going on

if we do not use the toy he does not want to work

 

I have been doing clicker training

crate games

look at me from CU

all the regular stuff and he is getting what I call rude,disrespectful, no focus

to him if we try to run a course i get about 1/2 way and then hes like oh no reward I quit

and wanders off to find what does interest him so i end up putting him up and trying again to get a small bit of sucess then quiting so he knows this is FUN!

i have tried small bits of work and stopping while its still fun but again he will only do it with toy

involved and obviously we cannot trial with a toy

 

is this juvenille behavior that he will grow out of

or am i forcing him to do a job he does not like

i cannot tell from his reactions what path to take

when he does work he is awesome very fast and quick to learn but then he just sort of shuts off

i have also had him chceked and chiro incase it was a pain issue

 

 

some new ideas would be welcome

thanks

[gcv-border]

Interesting question. How long will he play with you when you are not asking him to do obstacles? i.e. just playing without any expectation of doing what you want, just whoo-hoo-hoo playing, crazy stuff, running (you running too), throwing toys, etc - no stopping for treats (of if you want to give him treats, do it while still moving).

 

Jovi

[scullywags]

Interesting question. How long will he play with you when you are not asking him to do obstacles? i.e. just playing without any expectation of doing what you want, just whoo-hoo-hoo playing, crazy stuff, running (you running too), throwing toys, etc - no stopping for treats (of if you want to give him treats, do it while still moving).

 

Jovi

 

 

He will play ball or frisbee until he cannot stand up if i would allow it theres no shut off for the things he acts like he wants to do and then if we quit he will lie down and act like hes telling me hes not finished so the recall after play time also is a test of wills.

Recall at times when he knows thats what we are doing hes fine but same thing if he wants to do something he blows me off to get his way and fixated on the ball or frisbee if he sees where i put the ball or frisbee away then he goes and sits there waiting on it to reappear

[Debbie Meier]

From a training perspective, I'd work on getting that recall working right regardless of the situation. Often times getting things working right in one place will get things working right in other places. We don't realize that the issues are related due to us being fixated on the individual requirements.

 

I often take a step back from training when dealing with something that we are struggling with and ask myself, "am I dealing with a problem or a symptom of a problem?" Symptoms can be really complex, identify the problem you may find it is quite simple, as simple as realizing that the dog is doing what you have taught him to do or allowed him to do.

[SecretBC]

I know the trend in agility these days is to always encourage people to train with toys because it "builds drive" and whatnot -- But what happens when you work him with food? Do you get any more focus that way? Some dogs have their brains fall out of their heads where toys are involved. You may be able to build in more value to the equipment if you associate it with food rewards instead of him being so focused on the toys.

 

Short, short sequences sound like the way to go at this point as well. Try doing one or two obstacles without any reward on you, then run off to celebrate together.

 

Try to find fun matches that allow you to carry treats or toys --- Hide them on your person and then whip them out in the middle of the course and throw a big party. That kind of unexpected surprise is enough to really get some dogs going.

 

If you have any UKI trials in your area, they allow you to do training runs with toys. Again, hide the toy so that it's not obvious you have it, and randomly pop it out to play.

 

In training, do you run with the toy in your hand? If so, start to carry it in your belt (or stuffed down your pants like some of us....). That way your dog learns to watch you, not the toy.

 

Many/most people simply do not do enough training without the lure (food/toy). Hey, I'm guilty of the same thing. The appeal is understanding, we all like to run with fast/happy/excited dogs. The key is to create that same excitement without the lure -- It does take more time with some dogs, but they eventually get there if you are consistent with your expectations and reward promptly.

[scullywags]

From a training perspective, I'd work on getting that recall working right regardless of the situation. Often times getting things working right in one place will get things working right in other places. We don't realize that the issues are related due to us being fixated on the individual requirements.

 

I often take a step back from training when dealing with something that we are struggling with and ask myself, "am I dealing with a problem or a symptom of a problem?" Symptoms can be really complex, identify the problem you may find it is quite simple, as simple as realizing that the dog is doing what you have taught him to do or allowed him to do.

 

 

So i may have taught him that its ok to not want to do this and rewarding him with another play that he rather choose

and maybe hes made a game of just how long till she comes and gets me if i lie down and do not come straight away and i will still get treated!hes training me!

[Debbie Meier]

Yup

[Root Beer]

look at me from CU

 

There is no "look at me" in CU. Do you mean LAT? Based on what you describe, I do think that you are going to need more of the CU structures than just LAT.

 

all the regular stuff and he is getting what I call rude,disrespectful, no focus to him if we try to run a course i get about 1/2 way and then hes like oh no reward I quit and wanders off to find what does interest him so i end up putting him up and trying again to get a small bit of sucess then quiting so he knows this is FUN!

 

Have you tried the Give Me a Break game? It is designed to help with this exact scenario. If you are doing CU, the fact that he is interested in other things in the environment shouldn't be a problem. Those should be things that you are able to capitalize on and use to actually build focus.

 

You might want to look at GMAB a bit more closely. Once you train the foundation game, transitioning it into an Agility training context is quite easy.

 

i have tried small bits of work and stopping while its still fun but again he will only do it with toy

involved and obviously we cannot trial with a toy

 

No, you cannot. But if you use a GMAB structure, you can teach him that the toy is always coming (by the time you get to trial, that is after the run) and you can build duration off of that.

 

is this juvenille behavior that he will grow out of

or am i forcing him to do a job he does not like

 

Maturity might help, but I think that getting the CU structures solid during adolescence goes a long way toward helping to create a focused adult dog.

 

i cannot tell from his reactions what path to take

 

If a physical issue is ruled out, I would recommend continuing to study and train the CU exercises. You might want to go back and review the entire program - the mat work, LAT, the GMAB game, the Off Switch Games, etc.

 

Based on what you describe, I would probably focus on GMAB for now, but prepare to incorporate Off Switch work later, if need be.

 

I hope that helps!!

[The Good Shepherd]

Geeeesh, and here I thought most BC love Agility. Do you really need to to all the letter training?

[Root Beer]

Geeeesh, and here I thought most BC love Agility. Do you really need to to all the letter training?

 

For some Border Collies, absolutely.

 

Dean didn't naturally love Agility, but he has actually come to love it very much, and the Give Me a Break game (GMAB) played a big part in that. What the OP describes reminds me a lot of how Dean used to be at one time, actually. It was frustrating and disheartening. GMAB has worked like a charm to get both his heart and mind into the game and we are both enjoying it now.

 

I don't need the "letter training" nearly as much with Tessa, who is coming along very nicely. But her temperament is completely different.

 

But Dean wouldn't be playing at all if not for the CU games. It would have been far too stressful and not nearly enjoyable enough to bother with. Instead he is having fun and is eager to run every time he has the opportunity. It was certainly worth the effort on my part to learn the games, work through them with Dean, and put them to good use.

 

That's why, since the OP mentioned incorporating CU to begin with, I suggested continuing to learn the games. GMAB takes the conflict out of training focus with a dog who loses focus easily, and often that is half the battle right there.

[The Good Shepherd]

Okay,let me get this straight( I have never training in Agility) since its a game you don't compete right?

[Root Beer]

Okay,let me get this straight( I have never training in Agility) since its a game you don't compete right?

 

Sometimes we do, sure.

 

Games are often played in competitive contexts.

 

Dean and I typically trial 5 - 10 times a year.

[The Good Shepherd]

Kristine, I guess I have a hard time understanding why you would want a dog to do agility when the dog has no interest in it. Please don't get me wrong, I applaud your efforts but to me it seems like you "Make" the dog do it. My Barbie Collie Bandit has NO stock instinct, I will not "Make" him do stockwork, even if it involves games. On the same lines, he also does not do the "Stand for Exam" so we dropped obedience. What he does do so on his own free will and with a tailwag is snuggle with me, I am good with that and he is happy contend dog. I don't know how else to explain it, sorry

[SecretBC]

If the only dogs who did agility were the ones who were hooked on it and loved it from day one, we would have VERY few dogs competing in agility today...

 

Some dogs take longer to transfer value to the equipment. Quite honestly, some dogs never will. Some dogs will just run around the agility course because they love their person and want to please them. I'm not sure I see a problem with that, really.

 

My first dog, Luke, loved everything about agility from the moment we started. He just thought it was all way super cool. He had no problems putting it all together and, in fact, started to trial only four months after we took our first class.

 

Kaiser, my second dog (and a VERY non-traditional agility breed) thought training was pretty fun from the beginning -- But I think he thought the food rewards were more nifty than the equipment we were playing on. When we first started to trial, the equipment wasn't high enough value to keep him in the ring with me and he left. A lot. Over time the value shifted and now he finds equipment highly rewarding. When I open the door for him to take his turn on training nights he zooms off and does a lap around the yard taking tunnels, hoops & jumps all on his own. But he still demands food rewards to actually work. If we are just be-bopping around in the yard with all the dogs he'll do one or two jumps if I ask him, but then he goes off to find his own fun. When he's in work mode (and knows a reward is forthcoming) he'll work forever.

 

Then there is Secret. She really saw very little value in doing agility. She would go through the motions for food, but with little speed and little excitement. She wasn't interested in toys when we started, so that didn't help. With her I had to first build value for toys, then start to transfer that over to agility equipment.

 

She's to the point now where I do think she likes agility quite a lot -- it's a game we play, not much different than frisbee -- but there are days when she's not as high on it as others. She still occasionally finds trials stressful, but she tries hard. She's only two -- She has come a long way and I'm sure she still has much improvement ahead of her!

 

I do agility. I am bullheaded and figure I can get my dogs to enjoy just about anything that isn't causing them pain. It might be a lot of work, but it's time we spend together and I find it enjoyable. In the end, so long as the dog doesn't HATE doing agility, I find no problem in trying to make them enjoy it more. It's all about tapping into what motivates them. It's different for every dog -- They aren't stamped out from cookie cutters.

 

Returning my dog to the rescue she came from and trying to find one that found the equipment more exciting wasn't really an option for me. I train the dogs I have and don't replace them if they don't turn out to be exactly what I expected.

[Debbie Meier]

I have a serious question about time off, when I had dogs as pets prior to having stock dogs I didn't do any sports with them, if they wanted to fetch the ball great, if they didn't I didn't have any urge to teach them, they were my pets, my companions and in all honesty my security, I felt safe living alone with a dog in the house.

 

Now that I have working stock dogs I find that sometimes they need a break from all the requirement, not just stock training but anything that involves me placing requirements or demands on them above and beyond basic necessities. There are times that I feel that Ricky and myself are clashing so I just make room out in the kennel and he spends a couple weeks just being a dog with only two main requirements, be quiet and make way by moving back from the gate while I clean, feed and water. It seems like this break, refreshes things. We get back into a good basic working relationship by focusing on a couple simple easy requirments that are just habit, based on kennel ediquette.

 

I find the same works for my pups, since I started putting them back into the kennel when we plateau I have noticed a marked difference in the inexistence of bad behaivors I used to see and that friends of mine are struggling with that have their dogs constently interacting with them when they are home.

 

I understand that some would not consider of putting their dogs/pups into a kennel run and only feeding, watering and cleaning up after them for a week or so, but what if you found it was good for the dog? It's kinda like the break we used to give our horses, we would train and work with them but there would be a time where they just were not gaining or the gains were coming slow. That would signal that it was time for a vacation, let them go be a horse for awhile. Some think that means go play with other horses, but it didn't it just meant go into base survival low requirement mode. Minimual expectation.

 

Just sharing some thoughts.

[SecretBC]

Because my dogs are first and foremost pets, I feel that doing as you describe (essentially detaching from them) would be very stressful on them. My dogs are with me almost 24/7 -- they come to my office job with me. The only time I leave them is for my second job at an animal shelter. Or for the odd random social thing, but that even is rare.

 

I do think that performance dogs need breaks. Mine get that in the winter. We trial about once per month in the winter, but training more or less comes to an end during the snow season (Nov - May). They also get a break in the middle of summer when it is ungodly hot -- Then we just go to the river and swim.

 

I know some people who completely stop doing any agility for a few months per year. I don't feel the need to do that -- I just back off a bit, as I did with my horses. I boarded at facilities with indoor arenas, so I could ride year round -- But life in general (and the super cold weather) would lead me to riding far less from December through March, when we'd then start to ramp up again to get ready for show season that began in May.

 

We all do what works for us -- Maybe you need a mental break from your dog? I can't imagine such a thing.

[Root Beer]

Kristine, I guess I have a hard time understanding why you would want a dog to do agility when the dog has no interest in it.

 

The main reason why I continued to do Agility with Dean, even though he had very little interest in it at one time is because he is a dog who wants to be involved with just about everything that goes on in our household. Maddie and I were going off to Agility classes every Thursday. Dean wanted to go along. He preferred to do Agility over sitting in the car the whole evening. So, I continued to work with him on Agility.

 

Had he absolutely hated it, I certainly would not have continued. But he liked it well enough when he was in a confident frame of mind. There was certainly potential for great enjoyment, which he truly has found.

 

And that actually is the other reason why we continued. Over the years, Agility has given Dean confidence. Playing within the framework of CU games fosters confidence. As his confidence increased, his enjoyment of the game increased. So, we continued to play for that reason, as well.

 

I take my dog's preferences into account in a major way when choosing activities to do with them. Dean loves Rally, so we do Rally. I am much more interested in Freestyle and Agility, but I do Rally for Dean. He does Agility more for me. It's a win-win. I enjoy Rally with him because he loves it so much and he has come to thoroughly enjoy Agility.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I applaud your efforts but to me it seems like you "Make" the dog do it.

 

There was never any "making" him do it. I don't do that, actually.

 

When we were at the point where all we did was use our time in the ring to play tug, I certainly didn't have to "make" him. He practically dragged me into the ring to play that game. And when we started to incorporate a jump or a tunnel into that framework, I didn't have to make him. He was eager to add that dimension to the game. And so on and so on to now where he is running sequences with the toy off on a chair, which he leaves there until he is released to it (his "break"). "Making" him do it has never been part of the picture and it never will be.

 

Granted, I had to take where he was at into account, and I had to move at the pace that he set, as far as readiness to go on to the next step. But he was never pushed or "made" to do anything that he wasn't eager to offer. That is a big part of what the Control Unleashed program is all about - to take the dog's needs and desires into account and use those very things to build focus and desire to play the game.

 

If I gave the impression that he was dragging his heels and I was pushing him and making him uncomfortable, then I was most certainly unclear.

 

My Barbie Collie Bandit has NO stock instinct, I will not "Make" him do stockwork, even if it involves games.

 

Nor do I "make" any of my dogs do Agility.

 

Remember, there is no "Agility instinct". Yes, some dogs have more natural desire for it than others. But many fine Agility dogs start out with very little of that.

 

When I started Agility with Tessa, she was afraid of everything. Learning to step over pieces of PVC and walking through a short tunnel, and walking over boards was a major confidence builder for her and a very big deal. But she had no innate desire to do any of that - in fact, at first she didn't want to do those things at all, and I was grateful that she had such a strong food motivation to get her past that necessary part of the process! Now that she is running sequences, one might think she always had a very strong desire to play. But before she could want to play, she had to know she had nothing to fear, and she needed the basic skills of the game, many of which she is still in the process of learning.

 

So, I don't think the comparison with stock work really works all that well here. Yes, there are some dogs that dislike Agility. But a lack of desire at one point or another in no way means that the dog can't learn to appreciate, and even love, the game. For Dean the key was keeping it positive, always making it something that he wanted to do, and using the CU game structures to foster focus and drive.

 

On the same lines, he also does not do the "Stand for Exam" so we dropped obedience. What he does do so on his own free will and with a tailwag is snuggle with me, I am good with that and he is happy contend dog. I don't know how else to explain it, sorry

 

I stopped taking classes with Sammie because he did not really have a great interest in training and classes. I stopped Agility with Speedy because the overstimulation was never going to be good for him. I stopped Rally with Maddie because she flat out hated it. There are several Freestyle moves (like backing in heel) that I never ask Speedy to do because he flat out does not like those particular moves.

 

So, I know what you mean. And there are certainly times when such choices are the appropriate ones.

 

At the same time, I don't just quit outright any time one of my dogs shows a lack of interest or hits a difficult stage in training. I always approach the issue from different angles. In Dean's case, being left home every Thursday, and every time I went to trial with Maddie, would have been far more bothersome to him than me making it possible for him to continue to play the game in a way he found to be fun, so I used CU ("alphabet training") to do just that. For this dog, it was the correct choice.

 

We actually have quite a satisfying (to both of us) working relationship now and I am honored to call him my Agility partner.

[Debbie Meier]

I feel that doing as you describe (essentially detaching from them) would be very stressful on them.

 

 

But wouldn't you think that would be something good for them to accept and actually make them more rounded and able to handle different situations? Just applying it to a herd bound horse, best thing for them is to get them away from other horses, yeah they will stress but it is good for them.

 

 

.. Maybe you need a mental break from your dog? I can't imagine such a thing

 

 

I guess I'm not thinking about for me, I'm thinking about for the dog. You can't imagine it for yourself, but what about for the dog? Not picking on you but you admit that your dog would be stressed being detacted from you, wouldn't that indicate that giving them the opportunity to be detached may actually be good for them?

[SecretBC]

In working at an animal shelter, I believe I see dogs all the time that are getting what you describe -- Minimal contact, daily feedings & cleanings, etc.

 

No, I do not feel that it is in their best interest to live that way. I believe that dogs do better in a family environment where they feel safe & loved.

 

My horses were herd animals that saw me at best once per day. I was a neat person who brought them treats, made them trot around for an hour, fed them and put them back out with more treats. They did not depend on me the way the dogs do (emotionally & physically).

 

My dogs are very secure in our home environment. I have no idea why I would ever want to change that. They do not suffer separation anxiety when I leave them. They are very balanced. I see no benefit in making them live in a kennel environment for any reason.

 

I had to board Luke & Kaiser for a week when I went on vacation once. I can't say I noticed a marked improvement in Luke's agility performance because of it (Kaiser was too young).

[Root Beer]

It's kinda like the break we used to give our horses, we would train and work with them but there would be a time where they just were not gaining or the gains were coming slow. That would signal that it was time for a vacation, let them go be a horse for awhile. Some think that means go play with other horses, but it didn't it just meant go into base survival low requirement mode. Minimual expectation.

 

Personally, I wouldn't choose that kind of break for any of my dogs. Our time with them is so limited that no sport or discipline would be worth that kind of time apart, as far as I'm concerned. And having just spent an entire year bringing Tessa back from base survival mode, it is not a place where I actually want any of my dogs to be.

 

But we do take training breaks, and they are always beneficial.

 

During training breaks, I really give the dogs a chance to "be dogs". We hike, swim, and hang out together as a group. I give the dogs more of a chance to play and just be with each other, although they do remain an integral part of the household during that time. There are just very few expectations beyond basic house manners.

 

We don't really do that because we are struggling in training. Breaks really are dictated more by training class schedules - we are off for the entire month of December, for example, weather - we train very little in July when it is very hot, or life circumstances - I didn't train any of my dogs at all while Maddie was very ill during the weeks before she died.

 

I tend to be refreshed by training breaks. I come back to it with more focus and energy for training. And the dogs always come back to training very eager.

 

In addition, when a performance or trial is coming up, I've found that the dogs do better if we have taken several days to a week off of training prior to that.

[Debbie Meier]

Wow...now I understand why people are so surprised when they can take one of my dogs and just go do a job with them. Hadn't really thought about it, but if I approached things as you guys did I wouldn't be able to sell my dogs to a person that needed them and I wonder how effectively they would be able to handle distance work. I'm visuallizing a dog that is totally bound and dependent on me, which is counter productive to what I use them for and why I raise them.

 

Guess it just a different approach for different reasons. Thanks for the insight and answering my question.

[Root Beer]

Wow...now I understand why people are so surprised when they can take one of my dogs and just go do a job with them. Hadn't really thought about it, but if I approached things as you guys did I wouldn't be able to sell my dogs to a person that needed them and I wonder how effectively they would be able to handle distance work.

 

First of all, I have no intention of selling any of my dogs. I don't raise and train performance dogs to sell them. That is part of their lives as my dogs. And I am not saying anything against anyone who sells dogs. But the comparison is kind of moot. What difference does it make if my dogs are not prepared for sale? They aren't being sold.

 

That said, both Maddie and Dean have been run by friends, enjoyed the experience, and have qualified with my friends handling them. In fact, one of my friends had taken Maddie, on several occasions, to trials that I was unable to attend due to unexpected work commitments and illness, and Maddie always did an awesome job with her. Both Dean and Maddie have earned titles in runs where I was not handling them. Maddie's best run of her life was at a trial where I was not present and my friend handled her.

 

So, how, exactly, are these dogs totally bound and dependent on me? I think that conclusion, based on the fact that I choose not to isolate my dogs in a kennel periodically, is completely unfounded.

 

As far as distance work, in Agility it is a learned skill. Dean is learning it and doing a great job. I expect Tessa is going to be a good distance dog, as well, once she has a better understanding of the game. Yes, Maddie was velcro. Honestly, I loved that about her. I miss the feeling of companionship and "one-ness" that I always had running with her. I could have trained distance on her. I chose not to. I don't regret that choice now that I will never run with her again. In spite of that, she could run with other handlers.

 

Guess it just a different approach for different reasons. Thanks for the insight and answering my question.

 

Well, yes. I would completely expect those who own and raise performance dogs and/or pet dogs to take a different approach from those who own and raise dogs for stockwork. Especially if the stockdogs may be sold at some point.

 

The needs and goals of the handler differ in many ways. The expectations of the dog differs in many ways.

 

That doesn't mean that all pet/performance dogs are clingy, needy, bound, and dependent creatures. I've met quite a few very independent performance dogs. It simply means that there are going to be differences.

[Debbie Meier]

don't get defensive, I'm learning here....I simply shared my vision, that does not mean it is accurate and from your defensiveness I would say it is not, sorry. Anyway, this thread is helping me to understand the hurdles a bit better when a person that comes from a pet/sport background wants to come over to the stockdog side.

[Maralynn]

I wouldn't kennel a dog away from me for a week, but I think I do see where Debbie is coming from.

 

If things aren't going right, take a break. Give the dog lots of down time. Stick to the very basics. Kennel/crate them for longer stretches and give them a chance to really rest their body and their brains - there is something to be said for quiet environment with little no stimulation. Ever go on vacation and just mostly sleep for two-three days? It did you good, right?

 

I'd give a dog several days to a week of down time, let them rest up, and then try again when they are fresh.

 

To the OP, it your dog is stuck in the same rut so to speak, I'd take a little break and figure out a new criteria to run the course with. If he's quitting halfway through, then run two obstacles, reward and put him up. Always quit before he wants to! This build drive for the activity.

 

Also limit your mindless play sessions. If you're playing fetch, incorporate OB work into it. He earns to toy from you in every situation, not just with agility.

[gcv-border]

He will play ball or frisbee until he cannot stand up if i would allow it theres no shut off for the things he acts like he wants to do and then if we quit he will lie down and act like hes telling me hes not finished so the recall after play time also is a test of wills.

Recall at times when he knows thats what we are doing hes fine but same thing if he wants to do something he blows me off to get his way and fixated on the ball or frisbee if he sees where i put the ball or frisbee away then he goes and sits there waiting on it to reappear

 

Debbie Meier and SecretBC have good advice - ID the problem and make agility fun, fun, fun with lots of rewards.

 

It sounds great that he really wants to play with you. The disconnect appears to happen during agility training. My take on what you describe (and I could be way off since sometimes you have to SEE what is going on) is that you and the agility game are fun up to a certain point, but after that other things are more interesting. Now here comes the sensitive part - does he turn off because something else is really more interesting? or is it because, through your training, he may be somewhat uncertain that he is doing the right thing and shuts down?

 

Try to up the "fun factor". For the near future, don't let him think that agility is something where he has to be correct.

 

Don't stop moving. i.e. don't set him up and make him wait at the beginning of a sequence. I know, we all do it, but in your case, maybe you need to try and work on making him as happy to do agility as he is to play with you. Agility should be playing with you, but he seems to think it is something else - "I have to be right" - so he feels a little stressed Try tugging with him, then without stopping, release him to go over a jump or two, then tug again or throw a ball for a reward. Do it for a few minutes then go away from the obstacles and play again, then come back and do a few more very short sequences. Gradually build up the # of obstacles in the sequences. Also, start with easy, baby sequences so he has less chance of making a mistake. If he does make a mistake, just ignore it (not even an 'Oops'), keep him moving and happy and bring him around and do it again. When he gets it right, party-party-party and keep moving!! If you want to treat him, keep him moving then too. Doesn't everyone (including me) treat their dog while it is sitting in front or beside the handler - for certain dogs, even that simple act might be slightly demotivating. Since you need to keep the fun factor high, give him treats while you are walking or trotting forward.

 

I think I am doing a poor job of explaining what I am trying to say, but essentially, I favor a training/reward system which focuses less on obedience and more on running and having fun. I prefer to get the speed (and fun) first, and then layer the control on top of that, rather than get the control first and then speed the dog up (which is what I was taught). I am lucky in that my dog's desire and drive was not diminished by the obedience approach, but I admit that I can sometimes frustrate my agility instructor because my dog is somewhat 'sloppy' and I don't correct him. I just go home and try and think of fun ways to make him do it correctly without 'correcting' him.

 

Good Luck,

Jovi