over stimulation in the ring

[in2adventure]

Grady is doing amazing in agility. We started our advanced handling classes (same as Lucia has been taking) and for being just shy of two is rockin' advanced USDAA, CPE type courses with minimal issues (most are handling problems...or should I say lack of ). The problem I'm having is, he over stimulates and over heats. He is a horrible panting, nervous mess that wants to RUNRUNRUNRUN. If left to his own demise, he would run all over the course just doing obsticals until he collapsed. It's very frantic. We do TONS of self control exercises. He by no means is out of control while on the course.

 

Is this normal? He is kind of like that in most things in life and literally won't sit still, sleep, eat or drink unless NOTHING is happening to distract him. A twitch of an arm will send him from what looks like a deep sleep to crashing through the house to sit by the door or his ball wanting to go.

[Root Beer]

Have you done any mat work from Control Unleashed with him?

 

I have some suggestions, but it would be helpful to know that before I make them.

[shysheperdess]

Do you crate your dog at all? I have tried many different ways of relaxing my dogs, different things work for each one. I have found that most of them become over stimulated by me just having them out, touching them, seeing the action. No matter how much massage, attention work, etc I do they just get to amped up by being in the environment! I will bring thme out throughout the day to stroke them, work on some exercises or potty them. It's funny, at competitions we always joke the dogs are like the olympic cometitors you see on TV chilling with there headphones right before competing. They just need to go into there own quiet "happy place" and chill! LOL!

 

I just found it works best to crate my dogs in a quiet area, they tend to all relax and have learned to just chill till I take them up and start warming them up.

 

Many of the agility competitors whose bc's get waaaayyyy to level 50 way to easily just need to be kept in a crate in a quiet area or in the car. Everbody relaxes

[mum24dog]

We do TONS of self control exercises.

 

Could you describe what you do please?

Giving him a quiet place to chill is a good idea but not enough in itself. He also needs to learn to cope with the activity.

Are you the type of person who can relax in the face of your dog's manic behaviour or does he drive you mad too?

 

Pam

[Root Beer]

He also needs to learn to cope with the activity.

 

That's where some of the suggestions that I have come in.

 

Speedy is the Overstimulation King of the World. We have worked for many years to help him learn to keep his stimulation levels - caused by his own motion - in check.

 

Does Grady get overstimulated on the sidelines while other dogs are running, or is it only when he's out there himself? If so, I probably would work primarily on stimulation due to his own motion first.

[in2adventure]

I think the statement about him learning to cope with his own activity might have hit the nail on the head. He can sit on the sidelines watching flyball and not so much as twitch. It's his own motion that triggers the over stimulation.

 

The control games range from simple every day things like sitting at the door after it's open until I release him to crate games to down stays around the agility equipment without using it. The last one seems to help the most. Doing other things around the equipment without using it until he's calm and focused. He can do a wonderful down stay while I run (yes, run) 3 or 4 obsticals away before releasing him. Sometimes I run back, we play and then do it again before actually letting him run the sequence. It's not until he's actually running that he gets over active and starts to over heat. Courses or sequenses only last for 5-7 minutes. This includes talk and discussion of the run, what needs to be worked on, rerun, discuss, etc.

 

We had another class tonight and I paid close attention to his mannerisms. It's almost as if he's concentrating so hard on getting it right, he wants to explode. I had a behavioralist (just a friend of mine) tell me he was a "fixer". "Is this right? how 'bout this? how 'bout now? Maybe this way?" Worrying himself to the point of frustration. He very badly wants to be right and please me.

 

I just worry about overheating in this state. The runs seems really short in a not so warm arena (I run in a down coat) for this kind of panting. I crate him covered in between practice runs to help calm him quicker.

[Root Beer]

I just worry about overheating in this state. The runs seems really short in a not so warm arena (I run in a down coat) for this kind of panting. I crate him covered in between practice runs to help calm him quicker.

 

Thanks for the additional info. I think the first thing I would try to do is determine what is going on with the panting. It could be straightforward physical overheating. Or, it could be a result of stimulation.

 

When he is panting, what are you seeing going on with the rest of him. Do his eyes have an intense expression, or a relaxed one? What is his tail doing? Is that what his tail does when he is relaxed?

 

If he is, indeed a worrier, the panting could also be caused by stress meeting stimulation. That's a tough mix for a dog to handle when both are bombarding him at the same time, especially in a highly stimulating situation.

 

I think the statement about him learning to cope with his own activity might have hit the nail on the head. He can sit on the sidelines watching flyball and not so much as twitch. It's his own motion that triggers the over stimulation.

 

The control games range from simple every day things like sitting at the door after it's open until I release him to crate games to down stays around the agility equipment without using it. The last one seems to help the most. Doing other things around the equipment without using it until he's calm and focused. He can do a wonderful down stay while I run (yes, run) 3 or 4 obsticals away before releasing him. Sometimes I run back, we play and then do it again before actually letting him run the sequence. It's not until he's actually running that he gets over active and starts to over heat. Courses or sequenses only last for 5-7 minutes. This includes talk and discussion of the run, what needs to be worked on, rerun, discuss, etc.

 

The common thread that I see in all of the control games that you are playing is that he can remain stimulated throughout those games. Yes, he's in a down while you are running, but even holding that down as you run away can be stimulating for him, and then when you return you stimulate him with play. Does that make sense?

 

So, you run away - he can remain stimulated - then you go back and play - more stimulation. For a dog who is easily overstimulated, stimulation tends to lead to more and more stimulation.

 

Based on what you say, I would focus on his stimulation levels and try to help him get those a bit more in check. I do suggest some mat work from Control Unleashed. In the mat work the dog learns more than just a down-stay. The dog learns to mentally relax while on the mat. By relaxation here I don't mean sleepy relaxation, or the kind of relaxation that a dog would have while getting a massage, but active relaxation.

 

Once your dog has that down, you can start to play games where the dog learns to toggle between relaxation and an excited (good-excited, not overstimulated) frame of mind. Once the dog knows the foundation game, you can take some variations of that into the Agility setting.

 

I have found that helping a dog who is stimulated by his own motion is a bit of tougher challenge than helping a dog who is stimulated by external motion. But there are things that you can do to help.

 

If you are concerned that this might be physical, a vet check might not be a bad idea. Otherwise, I would definitely start working on some conditioned relaxation and bring that into the sequences in class.

[MaggieDog]

Kristine has some great insights! I'd say Grady could probably also benefit from Karen Overall's Relaxation Protocol - google it and you should be able to find it easily.

[in2adventure]

Thanks for all the suggestions The more I watched him this week, the more I think the panting is from stress. He always walks a fine line of looking intense and insane. It's the same expression a little kid has when he's thinking really hard about something he doesn't quite get yet. Grady even sticks his tonge out and holds it when he's under pressure. He's trying so hard he wants to explode. I've tried a lot more short stuff with lots of "good jobs" in between. This seems to let him know he's doing right and he's not as stressed at the end of the exercise.

 

Working around the equipment without using it is supposed to help with self control in the ring. It's working really well for calm start line stays and the ability to walk through a room with an A-frame and not have him throw himself on it with being told The mat games are like the crate games. I do lots of work in front of the crate while it's open and closed. The idea being anything can go on around him with the door open and he'll just lay there calmly, like on the mat. He does this really well and doesn't show any stress. He hasn't quite mastered the tennis ball rolling by though

 

I'll check out the stuff you guys have mentioned and start applying calming exercises a bit more.

[Root Beer]

Working around the equipment without using it is supposed to help with self control in the ring. It's working really well for calm start line stays and the ability to walk through a room with an A-frame and not have him throw himself on it with being told

 

And that definitely has a place. I would say, though, that the exact exercises that you described above can contribute to stimulation, particularly with play as the reward. I might play the same games, but I would substitute food rewards on the mat as the big payoff for holding those stays - at least until the stimulation issues were more in check. It's a subtle difference, but it can make a big impact on a dog who gets easily overstimulated.

 

The mat games are like the crate games. I do lots of work in front of the crate while it's open and closed. The idea being anything can go on around him with the door open and he'll just lay there calmly, like on the mat. He does this really well and doesn't show any stress. He hasn't quite mastered the tennis ball rolling by though

 

I do advise people to work with both a mat and a crate. They are different to the dog, even if the type of relaxation that you are working on is similar. Even with the door open, the dog is "in" the crate. Being inside of something can help a dog who tends to get stimulated be calm, but that might not translate to a mat, which is not enclosed.

 

I had a student a while back whose dog could lay in a crate and a stampede could have gone by and her dog would have sat calmly and watched. But that same dog couldn't relax on a mat to save her life! So, she had all the self control in the world in the crate, but once outside the crate, that simply didn't translate.

 

What I'm saying is that the dog can actually learn some different things about relaxation when you work with the mat from what the dog learns from being in the crate.

 

Does that make sense? In any case, I hope it helps!