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Teeth Cleaning Tests


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My vet just quoted $429 for a teeth cleaning that included a whole list of tests. Previously a year ago I had a teeth cleaning at another vet for $104 and don't remember any extra tests. My questions is what is really required? I realize there is some danger with the anesthetic for a dog that is unhealthy but how much testing is really required for a seemingly healthy dog? I don't need a cleaning now but was just checking for a friend and was surprised at the cost.

Thanks for any input.

Mike

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I know nothing about dog teeth cleaning and the only dental work we've ever had done on a dog was the removal of two cracked teeth (this was a cattle-working dog). I don't know your dog's situation or health/dental issues but have you considered a dietary alternative to mechanical cleaning? My dogs regularly get raw beef bones to chew (rib, marrow, knuckle, steak).

 

When I had 7-year-old Megan to have an injury checked, the vet remarked on the cleanliness and brightness of her teeth, repeating over and over that she could not believe Megan was 7. Different types of raw bones can help do the same job - raw poultry bones (feeding chicken, turkey, duck, or goose parts raw with bone in), lamb bones, and so on. You can feed some of these raw and frozen for even more "chew".

 

I have heard folks remark that dogs with tartar build-up that were started on bones regularly, wound up with teeth that became quite clean and a healthy, pleasant-smelling mouth. I don't know if you would like to try feeding raw bones/boney raw meats option. My dogs love it and have clean mouth benefits from it.

 

Best wishes with your choices!

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Jazz is my 13 yr old senior girl. She has very little tarter on her teeth. Never had her teeth cleaned. THe vet comments on it everytime we go. It's the raw bones that do the trick for us.

I do have another senior girl (Raven who's 11) that doesn't like to chew bones. You can see the difference between both these dogs tarter build up quite clearly. Raven does chew bones a bit, like if I hold them in my hand the whole time but I can't sit there for days holding a bone for her so her teeth have more tarter than my other dogs.

Mick's family lines are some which show extreme tarter build up on their teeth, maybe the way the mouth is set I don't know but I know his Momma and siblings who aren't fed raw have horrible tarter build up on their teeth. Mick OTOH has spotless teeth. Again the magic of raw bones!

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Mike,

 

Many vets suggest pre anesthetic testing and it is becoming more the normal thing to do. There are any number of tests that could be run and all would provide ifo but most vets have about 4 to 6 they recommend for middle aged, healthy pets - they would be BUN, CREAT, ALT, ALKP, Hct, TP. These would test for liver and Kidney function since most anesthetics or pre anesthetics are metabolized and excreted from the body by these organs. The other two are to see about the animals red blood cells. They may recommend IV fluids for some animals or give that option - this helps eliminate those drugs as well more quickly, also antibiotics are common with dentals since the tarter on the teeth has lots of bacteria in it. Gum disease it linked to heart problems ect in dogs as it is in people. Dogs with whiskers and small mouthed dogs usually have more trouble with dental disease. There may also be additional charges to hook the dog up to a monitoring system.

 

By giving folks the "option" of testing of course they are increasing revenue. No testing is bad and can all be helpful. I would ask which they think are the most important for that particular animal. Geriatric animals would be the ones at the most risk and the ones I would do more testing on.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Denice, RVT

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Hi,

 

I can't remember all the risks - I know we choose to do the pre-anesthetic panel for our senior dog anytime she needs a procedure - she has some historical issues - elevated BUN, sometimes protein in her urine - so we check her kidney function and put her on IV fluids. The young fella has only gone under 2x - 1x for neuter and 1x for teeth cleaning (they were really discolored and we wanted to know if it was decay or what!). We did a blood panel for him as a baseline but may not do that again until he gets older - he's got other issues for which we test his blood as well. We travel 8 hours to a dental vet and she charges $900 CND for the cleaning - we do the blood panel before we go which is about $60. That ~$900 covers IV which, even if there isn't a problem, we opt to do.

 

Good luck!

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Having had a 12 month old healthy dog go into cardiac arrest due to improper anesthesia, I absolutely will not anesthetize a dog unnecessarily, which to me, includes teeth cleaning. Raw meaty bones are the answer for me. All of the dogs in the house (currently 6 of them, including a 15 year old) have nice clean teeth thanks to RMBs. And they're comparatively CHEAP!

A

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Having had a 12 month old healthy dog go into cardiac arrest due to improper anesthesia, I absolutely will not anesthetize a dog unnecessarily, which to me, includes teeth cleaning. Raw meaty bones are the answer for me. All of the dogs in the house (currently 6 of them, including a 15 year old) have nice clean teeth thanks to RMBs. And they're comparatively CHEAP!

A

 

Same opinion and experience (though thankfully wasn't my dog that died) here. Good diet saves a lot of money and has very few complication potentials.

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Our dental vet insists on pre-screen within 3 months prior to a procedure. We really don't like putting the dogs under and with Isla (12 yrs old), we left her with some folks who gave her big boiled bones (for 2 weeks 8 years ago). We have been paying for it ever since - literally - she fractured ALL her molars in that two week period and as each one decays we have it removed. She also broke a canine and has knocked out some her bottom lower teeth. With Rock it was a really difficult decision to get his teeth cleaned because of the risk of anaesthetic. We got him at a year old and his teeth were stained black - we tried for a year to get them cleaner and then decided to get his teeth cleaned so we could differentiate rot from discoloration - fortunately he had not rot.

 

For us, if their gums look good and there aren't any black spots receding into the tooth and if the root isn't exposed we don't get their teeth cleaned. Teeth cleaning is usually something we do if they are going under for something else. We don't feed raw so we clean their teeth (brushing and topical treatments - though not as often as we should).....

 

It is tragic when a dog (or a person) goes under for something minor and never comes out.

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with Isla (12 yrs old), we left her with some folks who gave her big boiled bones (for 2 weeks 8 years ago). We have been paying for it ever since - literally - she fractured ALL her molars in that two week period and as each one decays we have it removed.

 

I bet the issue was "cooked or boiled" with those bones. It changes the structure of the bones when heated.

 

Plus I think some dogs like humans just have "bad" teeth.

 

I'd still be trying to give your Rock some frozen RB's to help with his black teeth. I've used frozen RAW chicken wings (big ones) or any other big bone parts of chickens or turkey for teeth cleaning, even on cats. Frozen makes them work that much harder. Any recreationl bone that they can work on for a longer period of time works well. I mentioned earlier, Raven doesn't like to mess with bones and some of my dogs only want to chew on one side of their mouth but I'll hold the bone so they have to chew on the other side, once they get going they seem to chew on the "other" side for a while.

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Guest echoica

how interesting! my vet - who specializes in dental - absolutely abhors any kind of bone - cooked or raw - for dogs to chew on. he said that if your dog chews them they WILL with certainty have cracked teeth - sometimes visible, sometimes not. and stresses that even though this is painful, the animals will "suffer in silence". i have heard this elsewhere too. but i have also heard some of the things you all are saying here. so what is REALLY the truth??!!!!

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how interesting! my vet - who specializes in dental - absolutely abhors any kind of bone - cooked or raw - for dogs to chew on. he said that if your dog chews them they WILL with certainty have cracked teeth - sometimes visible, sometimes not. and stresses that even though this is painful, the animals will "suffer in silence". i have heard this elsewhere too. but i have also heard some of the things you all are saying here. so what is REALLY the truth??!!!!

 

 

:rolleyes: The Truth??? Everyone's truth is different and is based on their own beliefs and experiences. My 'truth' is I don't believe in feeding my dogs cooked or raw bones. And I could get a handful of vets to agree with me and a handful to challenge me. My thoughts? Everyone needs to do their own research and come to a decision that they can live with and then argue it out on these Boards :D

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how interesting! my vet - who specializes in dental - absolutely abhors any kind of bone - cooked or raw - for dogs to chew on. he said that if your dog chews them they WILL with certainty have cracked teeth - sometimes visible, sometimes not. and stresses that even though this is painful, the animals will "suffer in silence". i have heard this elsewhere too. but i have also heard some of the things you all are saying here. so what is REALLY the truth??!!!!

 

The truth is that in terms of dental cleaning a good thick beef knuckle is about $2.00 at most, and the dental from those vets ranges from several hundred to almost a $1k depending the clinic and region.

 

When Sally broke her canine I called a veterinary dentist who quoted me $1800 to pull the tooth and fill the gap with a special "matrix".

 

since I worked in medicine for humans, I was able to cut through the propaganda and find the "matrix" was nothing by iodine soaked guaze. The surgery indeed, was nothing unusual either.

 

The local vet pulled her tooth in addition to spaying her for me for $130. The tooth was an extra $10 on top of the spay. She healed quickly and without incident. Her lip drooped a bit over the missing tooth but she was unconcerned.

 

comparisons like this leave veterinary dentistry in a rather bad light. They had their place in speciality care, but their attempts to take over routine care have been imo rather underhanded towards the innocent and non-medically trained public.

 

Dogs can break teeth on a number of things - from stockwork, to toys, food, fences, even running into stuff playing. My friends late, great Flash shattered his jaw and broke out many of the teeth on the left side of his mouth in an agility accident.

 

There is debate about what types of teeth injuries need to be fixed and how. I would encourage anyone to use conservative common sense both in prevention and treatment. A size appropriate (too big to choke or attempt to break in half), meat and cartilage laden bone for most dogs is excellent for cleaning. Getting a raggedly broken slab fractured molar removed by a vet is good husbandry.

 

Commen sense, not cash through the nose.

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I've recently started to give my dog big beef soup bones to chew on - scared out of my mind he'll break something, after reading too many horror stories. He doesn't have much gunk on his teeth, just a bit of brown on his fangs and he hates brushing. Not a big chewer either - eats the meat around rib bones then leaves them out to dry and turns my balcony into an osuary. Plus he's usually not handling raw too well either. But after just a few sessions of gnawing on big soup bones (a few cooked, a few raw), his fangs are almost all cleaned. I watch him like a hawk while he's working on the bones, and I feel silly reminding him to "watch out, don't break any teeth" :rolleyes: But I do it, and so far he's been listening :D

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The Truth??? Everyone's truth is different and is based on their own beliefs and experiences. My 'truth' is I don't believe in feeding my dogs cooked or raw bones. And I could get a handful of vets to agree with me and a handful to challenge me. My thoughts? Everyone needs to do their own research and come to a decision that they can live with and then argue it out on these Boards

 

I'm in aggreement with this one! :rolleyes: At least the "everyone's truth is different!"

 

The rural vets I usually deal with are not in favor of raw feeding or RB's for teeth cleaning but when I have gone to a new vet, they all comment on how clean my seniors teeth look. Considering I haven't ever had anyonew teeth cleaned since before border collies were in my life I think the bones are doing the trick.

 

I also hear that raw feeding causes worms (the latest vet is preaching this to me everytime I come in) but as of lately we've not had a case of any parasites so I figue it's working in a postivie manner for us. I have had my LGD's get tapeworm and funny thing is I don't feed them raw but they feed themselves raw all the time!

 

What ever works for you is the best deal but a grand on teeth cleaning??? That just doesn't work for me. Heck I don't spend that kind of money on my teeth or families teeth combined and yes we do go to the dentist on a reg. basis!

 

Wish I could get my DS to chew some bones. Maybe his teeth would be better!

 

Anda...IMO I'd skip cooking the bones. Really...try playing around with some raw chicken bones and some cooked chicken bones. You'll see the difference is huge! I say chicken bones cause they're the easest to break without using dog teeth.

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Kristen - too bad he poops a river after being fed chicken :rolleyes: I tried turkey wings for a while but they didn't do a thing for his teeth and after a while he got diarhea from them too.

 

And the cooked soup bones.. well, I had cooked them for a soup for us, not especially for him - those were big knuckle type bones you find at the supermarket for $0.79/lb, and they didn't become brittle like cooked chicken bones :D I had bought another bag last week and fed him two raw bones since - he nibbles on them then carries them around to make sure no one else will gnaw on them while he's not paying attention. Like Chris or I would really do that - LOL

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So Chris carries around bones so no one can get them? :D

 

My senior dogs didn't do as well on the elk I've been feeding as they did with a variety of meat I was feeding down in AR. They don't get it on a reg. basis anymore and I always try to be on guard to let them out at the first sign of impending poo. Don't always make it. Usually they like a little bit of raw then turn their noses at it. I figure they know what's best at this point. Could be wrong tho...Jazz says the pizza I just pulled from the oven is on her menu for dinner!

If the knuckle bones work, cooked or raw...and Chris isn't fighting him over them...go for it! :rolleyes::D

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Kristen - too bad he poops a river after being fed chicken :rolleyes: I tried turkey wings for a while but they didn't do a thing for his teeth and after a while he got diarhea from them too.

 

And the cooked soup bones.. well, I had cooked them for a soup for us, not especially for him - those were big knuckle type bones you find at the supermarket for $0.79/lb, and they didn't become brittle like cooked chicken bones :D I had bought another bag last week and fed him two raw bones since - he nibbles on them then carries them around to make sure no one else will gnaw on them while he's not paying attention. Like Chris or I would really do that - LOL

 

Try raw beef or pork ribs - both are softer than knuckle bones but still do the trick. Beef ribs get gnawed down slowly by my crew, while pork are usually soft enough to eat in one sitting.

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I don't know if Ouzo can eat lamb, but lamb ribs and especially lamb necks are also fairly crunchable!

 

Odin has been working on an antler for a long time - it is hard but gives more than bone, almost like really thick toenails (that's a pleasant image :rolleyes: sorry). He used to scrape it down, but now he's gotten to a part where he can crunch bits off the end and he seems to love it. Has anyone heard of teeth injuries from antlers?

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Yeah, his ideal diet would be 100% lamb :rolleyes: and he actually got lamb today - but little neck and shoulder bones, those go straight to his tail :D The only affordable lamb cuts I can get from Safeway. Still at $2.49/lb they're just a treat. Albertsons used to have this with $1.49 but they closed the store next to us...

 

I need to stop by the Turkish store where they have whole lambs and goats... maybe they can sell me some bones by themselves. I believe they did that once when we bought a whole lamb for Easter from them.

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  • 2 years later...

Hello,

I am new to Border Collies and recently joined this website which has been invaluable and I am very thankful for all the wonderful and insightful conversations. I have a little one, Georgie is only 5 months old and her beautiful, white teeth are growing nicely. My question is, at what age do you begin giving them bones for healthy teeth? I know she would be over the moon if she got one today, but I want to be sure she's not yet too young. And should I just give her frozen turkey necks and such or should I let her have cow bones?I was under the impression that chicken bones were bad for dogs.

Thank you in advance.

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Try raw beef or pork ribs - both are softer than knuckle bones but still do the trick. Beef ribs get gnawed down slowly by my crew, while pork are usually soft enough to eat in one sitting.

 

 

I'm one of those people who just gives their dogs raw beef bones. I can't help cringing every time I read about people feeding raw chicken backs and whatnot, but ... apparently all those little, broken, brittle bits are processed okay. Right?

 

Anyhow, about the beef ribs, I'd been feeding those to my dogs this winter, but there is no gnawing slowly with this crew! They crush the ends off the rib bones and gobble the bits. When I had my Nick in for X-rays on his back, the images showed, clear as a bell, big ol' chunks of rib bone floating through his intestines! :blink:

 

That kind of freaked me out. I sweated for the next 3 days, but ... he either pooped them out or they dissolved in transit. Still, now I'm worried about feeding any more rib bones, for fear the fragments would puncture a gut. :huh:

 

So ... what are folks' thoughts on that? Is there nothing to worry about, when a dog breaks off and gulps chunks of bone - or a mouthful of half-chewed chicken backs or whatever? I can't think that's a good thing, unless a dog is a real careful chewer ...

 

~ Gloria

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I don't feed my guys raw bones that often mainly due to mess and expense and a couple of them get diarrhea afterwards. But all of mine except one have practically spotless teeth, including my 11 year old. I feed dry (Taste of the Wild) and put water on it immediately before feeding and feed right away. So the food is still crunchy but there's water around it. That combination seems to work wonders for their teeth, and that's for four different dogs, only two of whom are related, and two different breeds of dogs. The only one who has some gunk on her teeth is my 2 year old border collie, because she's going through a picky eating stage right now and either gets the food dry (which does not seem to help with cleaning) or lets it sit so long before eating that if I put water on it it's all mushy before she eats it. She went through a stage a month or so ago where she was cleaning up the bowl every single day and her teeth got really clean, but now are starting to get yucky again as she's once again getting picky about her food. So something to think about trying if you don't want to do raw. I'm not sure it works for all dogs or will work with any kind of dry food, but so far it's been great for my guys.

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I'm one of those people who just gives their dogs raw beef bones. I can't help cringing every time I read about people feeding raw chicken backs and whatnot, but ... apparently all those little, broken, brittle bits are processed okay. Right?

 

Anyhow, about the beef ribs, I'd been feeding those to my dogs this winter, but there is no gnawing slowly with this crew! They crush the ends off the rib bones and gobble the bits. When I had my Nick in for X-rays on his back, the images showed, clear as a bell, big ol' chunks of rib bone floating through his intestines! :blink:

 

That kind of freaked me out. I sweated for the next 3 days, but ... he either pooped them out or they dissolved in transit. Still, now I'm worried about feeding any more rib bones, for fear the fragments would puncture a gut. :huh:

 

So ... what are folks' thoughts on that? Is there nothing to worry about, when a dog breaks off and gulps chunks of bone - or a mouthful of half-chewed chicken backs or whatever? I can't think that's a good thing, unless a dog is a real careful chewer ...

 

~ Gloria

 

Hmm, I wonder if I'm getting bigger beef ribs somehow.

 

I've been feeding raw bones for 6 years now. The only bone issue that my dogs have occasionally had was where tiny bits of bone didn't digest for whatever reason and they puked them up. Usually a couple days after feeding a bigger bone like a larger pork neck.

 

Poultry bones are pretty soft and easy for dogs to digest. I think backs and necks are the softest of those. So if you're uncomfortable with the ribs, I'd suggest trying frozen turkey necks.

 

As far as risk, well I figure that there is no fool proof way to care for a dog... Do you want to use bones and the like to keep teeth clean, or do you want to go with the anesthetic risk? I think you do your research, pick a way that you're most comfortable with, then quite worrying unless you hear something significant to change you mind.

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I'd choose bones any day over anesthesia, gum disease, and the associated risks with both.

 

My dogs will occasionally barf up a bit of bone that did not digest small enough to pass through the spincter at the end of the stomach. That is a very, very rare occurance (in fact, I can't remember the last time that happened but it was probably pork neck bones and Dan).

 

I'd just as soon feed more raw and more bones than I do. As it is, my dogs get a chicken back about twice a week and a beef bone on occasion. They get raw meat or organ meat sporadically.

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