Sockwork and hip dysplasia

[dracina]

My boy, Jack, was just diagnosed with bilateral mild-moderate hip dysplasia. I always thought that maybe there was something not exactly right about his hips, but our (former) vet said he seemed fine, and thought an X-ray was excessive. So I put him on glucosamine supplements as a preventative measure, and Jack seemed to be OK. However, we were out walking in the forest the other day after playing Frisbee. When we finished, he had tons of burrs in his coat, and I tried to pull one particularly nasty one from his rump. When I touched his hip, Jack flew around in a growling rage, and nipped my wrist. Nothing serious, no blood or bruising or anything, but his snitty mood lasted the rest of the week-end. He would not let me near him, and he hid in his crate whenever I so much as looked at him. I had planned to go watch a trial on Monday, but I could not bear to leave him alone- he just seemed to be in such discomfort. I took him to a new vet today, and Jack was x-rayed. She said that his left hip is moderately dysplastic, and his right hip is mildly so. He likely aggravated his condition with his over-the-top frisbee moves, which he loves (loved ) doing. Another radiologist will examine his x-rays tomorrow to fully assess the situation.

 

I know that it is not a death sentence or anything, but I am still rather saddened and upset. We will survive, of course, but I am wondering how this will affect his *budding* stockdog career? I do not want him to be in pain; if he is, he will not show it until it is too late, I’m sure. We train/work stock only once a week for about 45 mins- 1 hour currently, and he LOVES it. We would do it everyday if we had access to sheep. I do not want to take that away from him at all. I asked the vet, and she seemed to think that he should be OK, but she is not at all familiar with the intensity of the breed (by her own admission). I don’t think that it would be terrible to continue for now; after all, he is not doing crazy-long outruns or anything yet. But, he eventually will get to that point (I hope).

 

She prescribed Rimadyl (generic), and said that he should take it when in pain or before going to sheep. Does anyone else give this before the dog works, and what effects might it have on the dog when working stock?

 

Karrin

 

ETA: Jack is not doing "sockwork", as the title implies; he is doing STOCKWORK. Although I do need help with my laundry.

[bcnewe2]

So glad to hear it's not sockwork. no one should have to work socks

I use Deramaxx instead of Rimadyl, less side effects for now.

Mick is a working dog and I let his health issues direct how much work he does. He has some dysplasia but other things on top of that too.

He's on a maintence dose of Deramaxx (half the reg dose) everyday to keep any inflamation in check and I have other meds in case he has a flair up (tramadol)

He's been retired from trialing for almost a year but I've been toying with the idea of entering him in a local trial cause we're both jonesing for sheep work. I still haven't sent in our entry but I'm still thinking about it.

 

He does a tiny bit of work everyday and he's fine, but I think he'd be having more pain if we were working hard everyday. It does nothing to stop him from running around like an idiot on a day to day basis so that's how we take it. Day to day.

The vet also has commented on how keeping him in good working shape has probably helped a ton, as he has good muscle tone.

I'd let his activities be dictated by how he feels. Then go from there. But that's just my opinion and it doesnt' count for much.

Good luck with Jack and his sock or stock work.

[PSmitty]

ETA: Jack is not doing "sockwork", as the title implies; he is doing STOCKWORK. Although I do need help with my laundry.

 

 

Seriously, though, I'm sorry to hear about Jack. I definitely agree it's not a death sentence, though I personally have no experience with it. I know of agility dogs who still compete in agility with HD. It sounds like frisbee might be too much for him, but if you haven't noticed problems after your lessons, hopefully stock work won't be such an issue. As I'm sure you already know, keeping him thin is of the utmost importance, as is keeping him fit in terms of good muscle tone in his hips and legs. Personally, I'd have him on some good supplements and only give the Rimadyl (or drug of choice) when he really needs it. I'm not sure I'd give it to him every time he works stock, but then again, I'm not a vet, either.

 

Best wishes for Jack.

[juliepoudrier]

I've said this many times before but as you're relatively new to the forum might not have "heard" it. I have a retired successful open trial dog who has very bad hips. I mention open trials and success because it illustrates the fact that despite her awful hips, keeping her well-muscled enabled her to lead a successful working and trial career until an injury ended her career. I will say that when I got her from her previous open handler, I was told she was reluctant to take her left flank. I decided to err on the side of caution and assume that the reluctance might be due to her hip issues, but as I said, she was still able to trial successfully. She just turned 13 last month, and although she's been retired a few years, it has been only in the past six months or so that I've really noticed a loss of mobility.

 

That said, she wasn't having any obvious pain like Jack is, but I also never did high-impact games with her like frisbee or chasing a ball. Her main form of exercise other than going on walks with the pack or working stock was swimming. So like Paula said, I'd concentrate on building muscle = stability in the rear end, keep Jack on the thin side, and treat pain as it occurs rather than dosing daily (because many NSAIDs are hard on the liver). If you want a daily medication I'd look for something through alternative medicine channels to start. Also consider something like Adequan. If worse comes to worst, you can also consider hip replacement or one of the other remedial surgeries that are available.

 

J.

[Maralynn]

I would look into a trying a different suplement with him besides regular glucosamine - I've used Joint Strong with my older dog with good results and have heard good thing about Cetyl-M Advance. Both have more natural anti-inflamatories that just glucosamine. Fish oil is also good for it's anti-inflamatory properties.

[SoloRiver]

I am interested in Joint Strong, but can't figure out what exactly is supposed to be anti-inflammatory about it. The ingredients say something like "magic anti-inflammatory proteins" -- do you know what the relevant ingredients are? I tried Young at Heart on my old dogs but saw no changes and it was expensive so I didn't repurchase it. Of course, this nutraceutical stuff is all a sort of inexact science, so just because I don't know what the magic ingredients are doesn't mean they don't work.

 

Solo's now on Glyco-Flex III and Next Level in terms of supplements. I just ordered Cetyl-M and Duralactin (both are the equine versions, it's much cheaper) for Solo. My understanding is that there have been some scientific studies on both and both are supposed to have anti-inflammatory properties.

 

For symptomatic joint disease I cannot recommend Adequan highly enough. Solo used to have a pronounced limp due to an arthritic right hip, and ever since I started giving him Adequan, it's gone. He now has back pain for which I am searching for better treatments, but I do think the Adequan has essentially cured his hip symptoms. It's also supportive of his joints which is important because the one good hip he has needs to stay good.

[Maralynn]

I am interested in Joint Strong, but can't figure out what exactly is supposed to be anti-inflammatory about it. The ingredients say something like "magic anti-inflammatory proteins" -- do you know what the relevant ingredients are? I tried Young at Heart on my old dogs but saw no changes and it was expensive so I didn't repurchase it. Of course, this nutraceutical stuff is all a sort of inexact science, so just because I don't know what the magic ingredients are doesn't mean they don't work.

 

It contains a high level of glucosamine, as well as MSM and condroitin. It also contains cetyl-M (though a lower dose that in the cetyl-m advance) as well as a several other trace ingredients that are supposed to have anti-inflamatory/joint proection properties. I decided to give it a try with Missy a year or so ago when she started getting stiff. It has worked really well for her and I noticed a marked difference when I was out it for a couple weeks. Miss is 10 and has led a very active life and has typical older dog stiff joint. She still able to do everything she's always done, just doesn't do as much of it these days. One of these days I may try a different supplement with her, but right now the cost runs about the same as other joint supplements and it works good for her so I've just stuck with Joint Strong.

 

Here is a link that shows the ingredients and the amounts of the key ingredient - you need to scroll to the bottom of the page

[dracina]

Thanks to all for the suggestions....I, too, have reservations about Rimadyl, and was concerned how the effects may hinder Jack's working ability. I may ask my vet to switch it to Deramaxx, and only for when he is in obvious pain. Adequan seems like it is our best bet, as he has been on oral glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM (750mg/daily) for over a year, and it is not doing enough to protect him. His weight is great: he is a very slim and fit 40# at 21", so we will keep it that way.

 

Julie, I do remember reading some of your posts about your dog with the bad hips, and the fact that she worked so hard for so long is definitely encouraging. As I said before, Jack's work is not yet too taxing (I don't think- he's still in training), but I am thinking more of the future. Funny you should say that about your dog's flanks....Jack has never been partial to one side; he has always been an equal opportunity flanker. Just last week, he was so one-sided (very reluctant to go 'away'), that a few people commented on how odd it seemed for him. He was also a bit grippy when going away. As it turns out, his left hip is the worst of the two. Makes me wonder.

 

I am pretty certain that with proper care, such as the supplements that were recommended, and proper exercise, he will be fine. Thanks for all of the advice and encouragement!

 

Karrin

[bcnewe2]

Melanie

can you give me an idea of what cost are involved with adaquin treatmeants? That is the way I'm thinking of going but I have 2 dogs that need to start on it. It looks like it might be cheaper than keeping them on Deramaxx full time.

TIA

[Smoothie]

Kristin,

I just can't say enough good things about Adequan. My Trip was having some painful arthritis issues in her feet and back when she was coming 9 last year. I took her to a physical therapist and religiously followed the regiment prescribed. I also started her on Adequan last fall and saw an immediate improvement--literally within a week. Trip had a very successful spring in Open, including making Double Lift at the Bluegrass. She turned 10 in July and is indicating that she is still game to work, so we will go as long as she is willing.

My vet will match internet price for Adequan, and I pay about $92 for 10ml. Trip gets an injection every 3 weeks and the 10mls lasts nearly 10 months. We also have the option of increasing the dose if she takes a downturn.

Connie

[Little Bo Boop]

You know what else you might try (I've had success with it) I have an old dog, that is having a really hard time with her back end, very weak, and its very painful for her to lay down. We put her on Tramidol and that helped some, but she was still a little painful, I started giving her melatonin as well, and noticed a marked diff. in her way of going as well as her demeanor (prob. because of the pain) You can google it for the info. but there are studies that say Melatonin along with being a potent antioxidant agent, it's also very useful as an anti-inflammatory. So far I've used it on two dogs, one that had cancer, and was arthritic, and now this older dog. I think it really made a diff. in their quality of life...hey, it's cheap, natural, can't really hurt them...you might give it a try.

 

Betty

[bcnewe2]

Thanks for the tips.

One of the dogs on the deramaxx was just diag. with a blown ACL yesterday. She is really to old to go through the surgery (13)so we've decided to see if she'll stablize without it. Do you think it might help with that? She's also arthritic and just plain old age is getting her. Her attitude is good and she's still getting around but I sure hate to see her 3 legging.

I will look into the melatonin. Tramadol did nothing to help her. But it does help Mick if he has a flare up.

The adaquin doesn't sound as expensive as the Deramaxx and I worry about keeping her and Mick on Deramaxx forever. You just don't konw what it's doing to the liver or other issues that it can cause.

TIA

ETA...I was very disapointed in the new vet's prescription pricing. He said he'd match internet prices but only petmeds.com and they aren't any cheaper. I've found Deramaxx for 52.00 for 30, 100mg chewables. The vet wants a 15 dollar prescription fee.

[gvmama]

Adequan...IM injections KV Vet Supply (good distributer) Google it. You will need a prescription from your Vet. The Vets normally ask about double what you can get it from a distributer for. Most start with 3 injections the first week and monthly thereafter. Usually comes in a 5 ml bottle if I remember correctly and is given per weight. Normal dosage about 0.8 -1 ml for the average sized BC.

Suzane

[SoloRiver]

I order Adequan from KV Vet. Their price is $52.95 for 5ml, and Solo gets 1.25 ml at a time. I had him on a twice a month schedule for a long time (every two weeks) but am probably going to go back to once a week as the twice monthly does not seem to be cutting it for him anymore. So, it'll cost me $52.95 a month, or around the cost of the proverbial daily latte from Starbucks. Solo gets subcu injections. Studies have demonstrated that the results from sq injections are comparable to those from IM injections and sq are much easier to give at home.

 

So no, it isn't cheap but considering the results I feel like you get what you pay for. Most people can handle $2 a day. Like I said, he had a pronounced limp (so bad that people passing by would point it out, like I was a bad dog owner and didn't notice) and it literally disappeared after I finished giving him the loading dose, and it never came back. Other than his episodic acute pain episodes (detailed in another post) Solo is maintained well on Adequan and joint supplements, and I haven't given him Rimadyl regularly except for a short period while we were living in San Francisco. We LOVE Adequan.