Recall Question -whistles and treats

[Indydog]

This is a semi working dog related topic.

 

I'm using treats to aid in recalling using a shepherds whistle for a super keen 1.5 yr old pup. She's got the idea. My question when do I stop giving her the treats?I know ultimately, I'm going to have to stop with the treats. Should I just increase the verbal praise and decrease the treats? I had the same question in puppy school. They never address when/how people should transition from away from treats and clickers.

 

I've felt like training with treats more of a bribe than training. I never used treats with our other BC but I got him when he was 3.

 

 

Thanks.

 

Jim

[Sue R]

I use treats for basic family dog manners, including a recall (verbal). Once the youngster begins to get solid, I begin to reduce the treats but by becoming "random" - a treat this time, no treat (just praise) that time, two treats another time, and so on. The random approach means the youngster will be excited and anticipating that coming to you is a really good thing, but won't be "disappointed" when there isn't a treat. Who knows? Next time, there might be three!

 

Many working dog folks never use treats and never have to in order to get good results. I like them for litte pups and youngsters who are still easily distracted.

[juliepoudrier]

I generally don't use treats to teach a recall, but then I have a pack of adult dogs who recall instantly, so any youngster generally just comes along too, and pretty much learns a recall that way. Not to say that I don't do one-on-one recall work with a pup, because I do, but that generally the older dogs set an example that is easy for the pup to follow. I had one pup who was a real jerk about the recall (you could see the thought process: "Hmmm...should I go to her? Nah, it would be much more fun to take off to the pond!", and I did use treats with her--and a drag line). Like Sue does, treats became intermittent and were eventually phased out. I should note that corrections were also part of this training. If I called her and she didn't come instantly, she got a verbal correction, and then a second recall, at which point she would be reeled in and treated. The idea of the correction was to get her to understand that I wasn't happy with her choice not to come (even if she was just standing there looking at me, not running away), and of course to get her used to voice corrections for their use later in her training on stock. Then when she made the right choice (well, or was reeled in--and often it just took a simple tug in my direction and then she'd come my way on her own) she was rewarded.

 

J.

[Ooky]

I've felt like training with treats more of a bribe than training. I never used treats with our other BC but I got him when he was 3.

 

Hi Jim,

 

I can't speak to using treats while training a dog for stockwork, but I have used treats for training a lot. It's not that hard to go off them, just like Sue said. Substitute a word of praise instead. Stop the treats sooner rather than later, if she has problems introduce some treats again. To make sure it is not a bribe, and instead is a reward, don't show the treat to your dog when you ask for the recall.

[Sue R]

Julie - Thanks for mentioning using a correction, which I also do if the dog does not respond. I'm always looking for *improvement* and so I often treat when I get that, even if I don't get the total reponse I am hoping for *this time*.

 

When the dog does come and gets a treat reward, I couple that with a word or phrase ("What a good boy!") that, when I don't treat, I can use. Sort of like clicker-training, the phrase becomes part of the reward and becomes rewarding in and of itself - it "stands in for" the treat.

 

Dan is a challenge compared to Celt, Bute, and Megan in terms of teaching the recall. I use a long line or Flexi and don't hesitate to reel him in, but I also find that the use of treats makes the recall a positive experience for this sometimes quite stubborn, independent, and easily distracted youngster.

[desertranger]

I use treats intermittently depending on the lesson. Sometimes I don't need them other times it's a great help in getting Jin started on something. In general I try to avoid treats and lure training. I don't use clickers at all. I also find that a ball (Jin's OCD for them) is also useful as a training aid/treat. Getting him to go down a slide for example it's easier to entice him with a ball than it is with a treat. After a behavior is established I start weaning the treats from that.

[Jimmyd65]

I use treats intermittently depending on the lesson. Sometimes I don't need them other times it's a great help in getting Jin started on something. In general I try to avoid treats and lure training. I don't use clickers at all. I also find that a ball (Jin's OCD for them) is also useful as a training aid/treat. Getting him to go down a slide for example it's easier to entice him with a ball than it is with a treat. After a behavior is established I start weaning the treats from that.

 

Same thing with Layla. She's OCD with her frisbee. She most of the time just stands looking at me when I call. If I have the frisbee she comes in a stalking mode. This is the command or lack thereof she needs the most work.