Tea Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Ok I admit I am off on a deep one here. But I just challenged a BIG wildlife organization to put their money where their mouth is and create products out of sustainible, predator friendly wool.They make the stuff right now out of petroleum products made in china. They asked me if I could organize it. I said I'll try. Actually I said of course I would...glup! But folks a good market for WOOL! OMG! So e-mail me if you want to get involved with this. Do you have wool? Are you sustainible, try to be predator friendly, within reason. Do you knit, weave, crochet,needle felt anthing like that? What price would you ask for your wool and in what stage could you process it? E-mail me privately! Lets see if we can turn the sheep market around! And help the world. huiha@centurytel.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Tea, What kind of products are you talking about? I'm not clear on whether you mean that you're looking for raw wool to be made into something else by this organization or if you're soliciting people to make products from wool to be sold by this organization (or both)? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 The later would be the best, but both if we could get enough people envolved. I am winging this. I have tried for years to get these guys to see this, this is the first time they have even considered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I knit and crochet. I have also done a lot of crewel work. Right now, most of what I do is prayer shawls and hats for people in hospitals or going through chemotherapy. So I try to use washable yarns. But our church knitting (etc) group might be interested in yarns for shawls. These aren't the Jewish prayer shawls. They are shawls or afghans that we make and pray for the recipient while we work. They are the size one can use to wrap around for comfort - not to cover a bed. We would need actual yarn. I have no idea what anyone would spend. I buy my yarn at A.C. Moore with coupons. But some women go to boutique shops. But I will see about asking my pals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hi Tea, if this is a big organisation, and they currently are producing goods in China from petroleum products (I'm guessing clothing??), wouldn't it perhaps be best to target actual US wool producers with this idea? I might be wrong, but it seems like most of the people on this sort of board have fairly small numbers of mixed breeds, kept more as hobbies and for small scale meat production, rather than producing garment quality wool. Maybe it'd be an idea to contact a group like ASI that deals with US wool producers. Re prices- from the ASI site: Wool, Price ($/lb.) Clean, Delivered, from 29 weeks ago: 18 micron (Grade 80s) no prices reported, 19 micron (Grade 80s) no prices reported, 20 micron (Grade 70s) no prices reported, 21 micron (Grade 64-70s) 3.02, 22 micron (Grade 64s) 3.05, 23 micron (Grade 62s) 2.50-2.87, 24 micron (Grade 60-62s) 2.11, 25 micron (Grade 58s) 2.00, 26 micron (Grade 56-58s) no prices reported, 27 micron (Grade 56s) no prices reported So sounds like 2-3c/lb for fine wool, I don't know what the current prices are like for US super/ultrafine suitable for garments, but ASI should know. Just a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluj Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Is there a good network or resource for connecting hobby wool producers with hobby wool crafters? If so, I'd love to hear of it, if not might be something to look into organizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Any idea about what kind of quantities we are talking about here? Like if I made hats from my wool are we talking 5 hats or 50? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Sorry took me a while to get back to the board, lambing now. No, the big wool producers are not interested for the most part in things like this. That is a different world, different prices. Yes we want small sustainable family farm type producers. Or ranches that are into sustainable, not necessarily organic. But try to be predator friendly. Little tiny farms might form groups to fill orders. This organization would order products from each producer/group. (I would say think 50 hats not 5. You can do a hat on a knitting loom in two hours, if the wool is already spun. But maybe if you could not produce that, you would join a group.) My guess is you would have to be able to produce a minimum order, what that would be, I do not know yet. The person I talked to supposedly is going to get in touch with their marketing dept. I will tell you the truth, I am not holding my breath. BUT I know the time is coming for small farmers. And at leasrt the idea has been put into their heads. I get from $100 to $200 per shawl from my own farm. We process our own wool.(Now realize the organization would not pay that much. Here would be the problem. But It is a start anyway to get them interested.)Yes sales are down, but I am still selling stuff. My woven shawls take about 6 skeins of my bulky yarn. I find that people are more interested in buying something already made rather than buying yarn. I have just received an order out of state for brain tanned lamb skins for a yoga classes. I sell them for about $120 each. It takes me about 3 hours actual work to process them by hand. Want the recipe e-mail me. My motivation is keeping the land. Sustaining the natural environment and having a rewarding life. If someone else can benefit from what I start then great. That fits the mission of our project here. All over our country the small family farm could make a comeback and there are a lot of small wool mills. The trick is to have an organization like this big one see that they cannot preach predator friendly without BUYING it from US producers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Tea, I don't know if this is any help, but, our Iowa Sheep Industry Assoc. Newsletter just came, there is a listing for "Specialty Sheep Related Services", there are people advertising Fleeces and Craft Wool, Handspinning, Yarns, Felting, Pelts, Horns, lamb tallow soaps and other hand-spun products. Cross referencing the 15 ads with those advertising working dogs, there is only one that also has dogs. My thought would be for you to get with the different state sheep associations to see if they have a listing like what has been put together here in Iowa. Also, in the minutes of the Iowa Sheep Industry Assoc. there was a reference about further researching what all has been done to help market meat, they are trying to find ways to create a market for ewes, right now culls are going for as cheap as $25 each. From what I can tell, the commercial meat lamb producers are totally different from the wool producers here in the state but I might be mistaken as I try to make heads or tails of all the advertising. The website for the ISIA is www.iowasheep.com. Marsha Spykerman is an executive director that handles their newsletter and promotions, her e-mail is on the website. Also, the Iowa Sheep and Wool Festival has fiber classes offered each year, Margee Meehan chairs the fiber events and Regina Frahm chairs the fleece show. Let me know if you want me to get your any other contact information. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Thanks! I will contact them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 As I see it, the rub is to come up with products that have broad appeal. Most specialty, handspun wool products just don't have that. Since you said they use petroleum products, I am guessing that they sell items like polarfleece pullovers or picnic blankets, messenger bags, you know, stuff that looks like what they sell at REI. Most handspun wool stuff does not fall into that category. I am probably in the target market for this kind of stuff (the right demographic, active, like to do things outdoors, belong to a number of wildlife/conservation organizations). I have no interest in afghans, shawls, or handspun wool hats (they are scratchy, and feel miserable when wet), gloves, satchels. On the other hand, I own probably four or five polarfleece pullovers and jackets, three messenger bags, three pairs of polarfleece gloves, one polarfleece neck gaiter, and two hats. You get the picture. Some companies have recently started producing high performance technical garments out of wool, such as Smartwool and Ibex. I am wondering if this is more the direction that the large environmental organization would like to go in. These are certainly more like the type of garments and items that I would buy. I may be completely off base here, but I am not sure that the types of items that are typically made with small batches of homespun wool are the kinds of things that this organization would be interested in. Frankly, they won't sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I may be completely off base here, but I am not sure that the types of items that are typically made with small batches of homespun wool are the kinds of things that this organization would be interested in. Frankly, they won't sell. That was my feeling, too. Even with the handspun sort of products (which I really like, myself), I'm not sure how you'd get the consistency and supply necessary for a big organisation to sell, especially if you're hoping they'll replace their existing "Made In China" stuff. My limited experience with small hand made products (modern cloth nappies)is that it's hard to keep enough product in stock to cater for even a small local market. And what sort of profit margin would be possible from this sort of product? Assuming that part of the reason this group sells things is fundraising, I guess they'd be expecting a reasonable profit. The other thing worth considering is that if the organisation is trying to encourage people to support a certain type of industry- like predator friendly sheep farmers, it's usually with the aim of expanding that industry, and boycotting the competition. When I used to buy free range eggs, I hoped that my money would enable the free range producers to make more profit, expand their business, and eventually their share of the market, so that free range becomes a more attractive option for all egg producers. But it sounds like you're targetting a group of wool producers (hobbyists with very small flocks) who aren't really in competition with the "predator-unfriendly" producers, and can't really expand much- most of these people keep sheep for fun, and are limited by day jobs and land size in how much they can produce. So... if I were a large conservation group wanting to "put my money where my mouth is" in supporting "predator friendly" livestock production, I'd be targetting larger producers, who can cater for commercial requirements in terms of garment quality wool with consistent quality and supply, and as Melanie said, produce near-equivalent goods to the current Chinese nylon stuff, with only a moderate price increase. No, the big wool producers are not interested for the most part in things like this. That is a different world, different prices. I know "commercial" and "large scale" can be dirty words in the hobby sheep world, but not all large producers are unsustainable, predator-unfriendly, or uninterested in ways to improve their practices and add value to their products. Maybe it would be worth approaching some of the sheep industry organisations- they might surprise you. And maybe some of the groups that encourage predator friendly farming, or that certify producers "predator friendly" would be able to put you in touch with some commercial wool producers who already meet those criteria. Predator Friendly.org have some listed on their web site. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I am keeping my project afloat by selling hand spun products from my sheep and brain tanned lam skins and hand made soap And Of course my lamb meat. It is getting to be a very good market because people are learning that the chemicals in clothing and food are bad for your health. Chemicals that are used to scour wool of chaff etc can cause wool to feel weird as well. How wool feels depends on what sheep it comes from, how it is cared for, what breed is used, the age and how well cared for the fleece is in processing and spinning. And how it is spun. I use lamb wool. I spin it to be soft. Anyway Thank you for all who e-mailed me. I will try to put together something. The slow food movement is a very real and growing idea. Slow clothing is right behind it. I personally want to know how my food and clothing is grown and handled and who created it and how. One or two or ten small farms would not make an impact but 100 or 500 would. The world is changed by a few people that get an idea and act upon it. The people who have contacted me from this board and other boards are small farmers mostly. Maybe this thing doesn't work out. But still these small farms should go to their farmers market and sell all the products they can produce. It is a way to survive. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 The world is changed by a few people that get an idea and act upon it. Absolutely! Good on you for having this idea, I think it's a good one, and maybe widening your scope, taking on ideas from a variety of sources might make an even bigger difference. I personally want to know how my food and clothing is grown and handled and who created it and how. Me too! It's one of the great things about farming for a living. Sustainability and commercial farming aren't mutually exclusive. I'm really hopeful about continuing positive developments in modern agriculture, with more farmers making innovative steps towards an environmentally responsible and economically sustainable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 It would make a LOT more sense to go to some company that is already making high-quality wool products and arrange a supply chain starting with small, predator-friendly family farms for them to use to make their products rather than expecting people to knit 500 beanies from their own sheep wool in their own living rooms. People who raise sheep as a hobby probably won't want to do that, and people who do it for a living probably don't have the time. You may do it, but my guess is that you are in the way minority on that one. It would also help to do some market research before going into this and to determine exactly what type of things would sell and what the organization wants to offer to its buyers. If you want to change the world, which I am all for by the way, it makes sense to offer products that people actually want. Now, I am so committed to my ideals, and so left-wing, that I am practically a commie. But I am also pragmatic and it doesn't matter how wonderful and honorable your afghans are if no one wants to buy them except my neighbor's grandma. I would love to see something like this work so I am trying to give you advice that you may not have thought of. I recognize that it makes you defensive, but it is also reality. One handspun wool product that I would be very interested in is an attractive handknit wool sweater (like a fisherman knit or Aran sweater, perhaps) that is not too scratchy and that comes in actual colors (or non-colors, like black, white, or charcoal grey) rather than "sheep beige." How wool feels depends on what sheep it comes from, how it is cared for, what breed is used, the age and how well cared for the fleece is in processing and spinning. And how it is spun. I use lamb wool. I spin it to be soft. Trust me, I am well aware of differences in wool quality. I am very picky about the sweaters I buy (I expect to wear them forever, and enjoy them as long as they last) and am familiar with different types of yarns and how they feel against the skin. Most wools are NOT interchangeable with materials like polarfleece for the items that are typically made of polarfleece. Even the handknit wool hats they sell at REI have polarfleece sewn inside of them so that the wool does not directly contact skin. Compared to polarfleece, all wool is scratchy, even cashmere (which yes, I know is from goats and not sheep). Smartwool and Ibex use superfine merino wool for their products and they are the companies that come closest to making true performance garments out of wool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Even the handknit wool hats they sell at REI have polarfleece sewn inside of them so that the wool does not directly contact skin. Compared to polarfleece, all wool is scratchy, even cashmere (which yes, I know is from goats and not sheep). Smartwool and Ibex use superfine merino wool for their products and they are the companies that come closest to making true performance garments out of wool. Thats interesting to hear. I've made and sold/given away many,many hand knit wool hats made from fine grade wool. I have recieved many comment on how comfortable the hats are, many folks saying that it was the best hat they'd ever had. People who raise sheep as a hobby probably won't want to do that, and people who do it for a living probably don't have the time. You may do it, but my guess is that you are in the way minority on that one. At one time, yes. But times are changing. Farmers are looking more and more for value added products that they can produce for greater income. If small to midsized farms are going to survive, they need to diversify and be able to sell value-added products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I think there may be a lot of hobby people out there that would adjust their flock or their management program if there was financial gain in addition to a good support system to help them with questions along with guiding them down the right breed path at an economical price. In our case, we are feeding about 75 head of sheep right now, since we are using them for dog training we just went with hair sheep, they are easy on the feed bill and I don't have to mess with finding a shearer or an outlet for the wool. We are working on getting better meat quality more for our own freezer. But, if it made financial sense to change over to a fine wool breed I don't see why we would not. Except, I'm sure someone would see us coming and charge us out the wazzo for replacements, making it economically impossible to rebuild our flock quick enough to make it worth while to make the change. There's a concept for a new program, low cost seed stock for existing hobby sheep owners to help entice them to change over their flocks. It might be a good way to increase the "right" producer base. It's simular to the tack companies that send small harness/saddle makers specs and the material to build a contract product (rope halters, reins, headstalls). The maker gets all the raw material supplied to them, they just need to supply the know how and time to put it together. That way one company could have many many makers, but since the material is all the same it would reduce the variation in the products. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workindogs Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Ok....I'll ask a stupid question...what does "predator friendly" mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Maralynn, I think you're right. I know lots of small (relatively) farmers who offer all sorts of value-added products in addition to just selling sheep--anything from raw fleeces (not value added) up to yarn (I bought some lovely hand-dyed yarn from another farm near here not too long ago, and also a ram) and products made from wool (my sister just sent me a lovely felted wool "painting"). Most of the folks I know who are doing this successfully are retired or otherwise have the means not to have to work off the farm and so have the time to raise livestock and create and market all their products. I would love to be in that position myself. Right now, I have all of last year's wool clip sitting in the barn waiting to be skirted. I have roving from years before. I just don't have the time to do anything with it all, which is rather frustrating. I think if something like what Tea is talking about could get going, then even folks like me, who don't have time to create value-added products, might be able to supply raw wool, etc. to folks who do. FWIW, I generally wear a felted wool hat in the winter, no lining. I went for felted wool after talking with a fellow trialer who said she loved her felted hat because it kept her warm and in the rain, the felted fibers would swell and her head stayed dry anyway. I'm waiting on Laura to make me a cute wool hat, and I pretty much exclusively use a wool scarf (for head covering and to protect my neck) made for me by my neighbor Mary. She and her husband both wear wool hats that she knitted. I have skiin sensitivity issues (atopic contact dermatitis) and one thing my doctor told me long ago was to avoid anything scratchy, like wool. But I have found that I can wear wool scraves and hats and the like, as well as wool sweaters (a friend gave me a lovely one hand knit by John Thomas' wife Kay) as long as I wear something under the sweater so it's not directly touching my skin. I can wear Smartwool socks without problems. I'll never forget the first time I met Amanda Milliken and commented on a lovely wool sweater she was wearing. She took me back to her camper to show me the others she had--all hand knit by a friend of hers and all absolutely beautiful. For me, while polar fleece might be easy to find and easy to wear, it's also made ultimately from petroleum products, and anything we can do to get away from the use of plastics--in all their forms--is a good thing, IMO. While I don't think any of these sorts of things can be mass produced by small or hobby farmers, I do believe that there is a strong movement--one that goes along with Slow Food and buying locally and so on--that would buy in to such an idea and actually purchase such products. Whether it can be done at a national conservation organization level at this point might be worth questioning, but I believe there are many people who would indeed buy such products if they were readily available. Elizabeth, I'm sure Tea will answer your question, but I'd guess that predator friendly means that you would use predator-control methods that weren't designed to kill predators but rather simply deter them. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workindogs Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Elizabeth,I'm sure Tea will answer your question, but I'd guess that predator friendly means that you would use predator-control methods that weren't designed to kill predators but rather simply deter them. J. Julie I was guessing the same, but I thought to ask about specific "rules". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Sorry guys, took me a while to get back. Predator Friendly means that you use alternate means of keeping predators from eating your stock such as LGD. Bringing in injured or pregnant stock close to the house, staying with stock, good fencing etc. Rather than shoot and shovel, and shut up. If you are interested in why we need predators and how they influence the health of domestic stock and ourselves, e-mail me and I will send you an article. (Sometimes permanant removal of a predator is the only way.) Oh I know I am a dreamer, I am not defensive about my idea or any one elses ideas. It is hard to express emotion while writing here.( You don't see or hear my voice or expression.) So please understand this is just a conversation amoung friends. But anyway, I wish to rethink the way of doing things. I do not like big corporations I am mistrustful of them. I look at motivation. ( And it bugs me when the big wildlife non-profits preach but do not do.) Where I live the small farms are coming together and no, one farm, cannot make 500 hats, but 5 farms can make 100 hats. Then the small farm has another means of survival. I know this is possible becasuse it is happening around me. Example: I just went to the Chefs to Small and Local Farmers meeting in Seattle. A French Chef kissed me on the mouth because he was so happy with our lamb. He is willing to pay a premium price for it. Also he was a good kisser. -------------------------------------------------------------- And It is what is supporting me and mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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