Flyball looks fun...

[sixx]

I am thinking of enrolling my pup Seek into flyball. It looks fun. In fact when I was looking to adopt a bc, I had been watching youtube videos of flyball. There was one video that I was watching that had all border collies on each team. The dogs were so excited and they loved it. I got a little verklempt, haha. Ever since then I was very interested in enrolling whichever pup I adopted.

 

Does anyone have any comments or experience with the sport that they would like to share with me?? I'm not all too familiar with the sport, I just know the basics. I wonder how long it takes to teach a dog the sport.

 

Is there an age limit?...I heard you're not suppost to have your dog doing excessive jumping if they are under 2, not sure about that one.

 

Any information would be helpful. Thanks

[Jumpin Boots]

The jumping height issue isn't just until they are two, it is until their growth plates are fused (I think that's the right term) typically this around 18 months depending on size and growth of the individual dog. Some people will have their dog's joints x-rayed to know for sure, while others wait until they are between 18-24 months. I would think that the impact of hitting the box to release the ball could cause the same damage as jumping so it probably isn't something that you would want to start w/ a young pup. But like agility, there may be exercises on the flat you can do to start the training. I would contact a local club or trainer find out the recommendation from them.

[in2adventure]

Flyball looks like A LOT of fun. I would love to try it with Grady, but I think the noise would kill me. I cringe everytime I hear a dog yapping its way around an agility course, especially at an indoor facility. Since this is where most flyball is held, I think I might go insane with sooooo many dogs yapping at the same time

 

The owner of the trainer center where we do agility also does flyball. Like Jumpingboots said, there is a TON of good ground work you can do before they actually do a course (not sure what the run is called). I asked her about it one time and it doesn't sound nearly as simple as it looks. Kinda like agility

 

Goodluck. I would love to see video if you get into it.

[Dana Nichols]

There are several good resources out there about flyball. The NAFA webpage has a locator to find clubs near you. Many clubs teach beginning classes and even foundation classes for younger dogs. There is a series of DVDs that has a great foundation DVD with information on starting a young or rescue dog. There are lots of things you can do before you even start jumping or box work. There is also a great webpage at www.flyballdogs.com with information on training & resources. You cannot compete with a dog until they are at least one year old.

 

Good luck. Have fun!

 

Dana

[MickeyDogs]

My two older dogs LOVED flyball. Oscar, the non border collie and he-who-would-like-to-be-noisy , could bark all he wanted while on the lanes (but not in the crating area) and Jill (border collie) loved running fast. The one thing I would recommend is to be sure wherever you go for training they teach the swimmers' turn on the box. My two came to flyball before the swimmers' turn became vogue and their method was to hit the box straight on (ouch!). Jill's front feet are now arthritic and whether or not that was from flyball is hard to say, but a good turn on the box is safer & less stress on the dog.

 

Oscar picked up the game very quickly. Our first exposure was a one day seminar. By the end of the day he was going over 3 jumps, hitting the box, and bringing the ball back over 3 jumps. This was 10 years ago (egads!). Teaching a good turn on the box will take time but it's worth it. Jill took a little longer get the game.

 

So if you don't mind A LOT of noise, and frantic, fast running dogs having fun, flyball could be for you! We had a blast.

 

Here's Oscar playing the game

[sixx]

Oscar, the non border collie and he-who-would-like-to-be-noisy , could bark all he wanted while on the lanes (but not in the crating area) and Jill (border collie) loved running fast. The one thing I would recommend is to be sure wherever you go for training they teach the swimmers' turn on the box.

 

Thanks for the responses.

 

How did you get your dog to be quiet when in the crating area? My situation is a little hard... Seek freaks out if I leave her anywhere. When tied up at agility, she barked like a maniac, even ignored other people trying to distract her with treats. She also barked on the sideslines (read below)

 

So, I took Seek for her first flyball practice. It was very fun and noisy (Seek was doing all the yapping). Seek would bark while the other dogs were running. This could be a problem. She was very excited and stimulated with this sport. They did teach the swimmers turn.

 

To train Seek, they held a ball right above the box and Seek would slam the box, and then receive the ball. Being the loyal bc she is, she would automatically run to me to give me the ball. She has no problem with noises. This went smoothly. Then we had her jumping over one hurdle and slamming the box. She did great. We also did another drill where one person would be on one end of the hurdles calling Seek and she would run down and get the ball from them, then I would call her back and she would run through the hurdles to me. She did very good at this.

 

So, we'll see how next practice goes. She is figuring it out really quickly and she loves it, so we are going to join the team.

[MickeyDogs]

Sounds like she's a quick learner!

 

Flyball is very stimulating and it can be amost impossible to keep a dog quiet when she's right there while others are running (agility can be almost as stimulating). Jill could get mindless fairly quickly and IMHO often that's what the barking is - a mindless reaction. What I did was work to keep my dogs focused on me in the middle of all the mayhem. For my two treats were the key; maybe for yours playing with a ball or a tug toy may be the answer.

 

Starting as an eight week old puppy Oscar has always told me what he thought (did I say he likes to bark? ) so early on before we became involved with flyball he learned the meaning of the word "quiet". He also learned how to settle in a crate. He wasn't as stimulated in the crating area so he wasn't motivated to bark but if he did, I could tell him to be "quiet". I encouraged him to voice his excitement when we were on the lanes racing but I expected him to be quiet & mannerly in the crating area. Some don't care about things like this but it's just the way I am.

 

You'll need to teach your dog how to accept being crated and staying quiet while you're not around and that could be a whole 'nuther thread.

[Root Beer]

How did you get your dog to be quiet when in the crating area? My situation is a little hard... Seek freaks out if I leave her anywhere. When tied up at agility, she barked like a maniac, even ignored other people trying to distract her with treats. She also barked on the sideslines (read below)

 

So, I took Seek for her first flyball practice. It was very fun and noisy (Seek was doing all the yapping). Seek would bark while the other dogs were running. This could be a problem. She was very excited and stimulated with this sport. They did teach the swimmers turn.

 

I highly recommend getting Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed for both of those things. She doesn't deal with crating directly, but you can apply her mat techniques to a crate to make the crate a conditioned relaxer.

 

For helping her learn to be calm while other dogs are running, the Look at That game might help. You would have to teach it in a situation with less stimulation, but once Seek knows the game, you could probably use it at flyball practice. Look at That transformed Dean from a barking, lunging maniac on the sidelines at Agility into a dog who lies quietly and watches the action with calm interest.

 

You might want to check it out if you can.

[sixx]

I will look into the "mat" idea. It could be useful. In fact, I don't even have a crate for Seek yet. I need to get one asap and introduce her to it, that could be a-whole-nother issue. I wasn't always sure on the whole crate thing. My moms dogs used to put themselves into their crates at night. It was there idea, a safe place they liked. Maybe like the wild, like a den. Either way I will get her one soon. I will check out the grainery this week. Then we can start working on crating

[Root Beer]

I will look into the "mat" idea. It could be useful. In fact, I don't even have a crate for Seek yet. I need to get one asap and introduce her to it, that could be a-whole-nother issue. I wasn't always sure on the whole crate thing. My moms dogs used to put themselves into their crates at night. It was there idea, a safe place they liked. Maybe like the wild, like a den. Either way I will get her one soon. I will check out the grainery this week. Then we can start working on crating

 

I taught Dean to LOVE his crate by tossing treats into it at first and allowing him to enter and exit by his own free choice. Once he was familiar with it, I lured him into it and fed, fed, fed and then released.

 

It didn't take much of that before he understood that the crate was a GREAT place to be and that was when I started taking his portable crate around to new places. At first I tossed a lot of treats into it as he was relaxing in there and gradually diminshed those.

 

It worked too well! If I want him to do something else and the crate is right there, he is always running to it!

 

If you teach your dog the Look at that Game and to enjoy being in a crate, you can play Look at That while he is in the crate at flyball class. At first you can give him just a teeny hole to see through and gradually give him more of a line of sight.

 

Not all dogs can lie in a crate and watch a lot of activity going on around them, and there is nothing wrong with covering a crate to help a dog settle. But it is super nice to have a dog who can see what is going on in the room and still stay calm in the crate.

[JohnLloydJones]

I taught Dean to LOVE his crate by tossing treats into it at first and allowing him to enter and exit by his own free choice. Once he was familiar with it, I lured him into it and fed, fed, fed and then released.

It took over a month to convince Senneca to accept her crate; initially it was symbol of the shelter prison she had just come from. Treats, more treats and gentle coaxing was what got her there. Even then, it took a while of leaving the door ajar and little by little closing it more and more before she trusted us to lock it. Now her crate is her den; her place to go and find peace from the household madness. She is still restless in her soft crate when we do agility in the evenings. I have to give her a down command or else she gets agitated and barks at the neighboring dogs. This only happens when it's dark; in daylight she has been perfectly calm.

[Root Beer]

She is still restless in her soft crate when we do agility in the evenings. I have to give her a down command or else she gets agitated and barks at the neighboring dogs. This only happens when it's dark; in daylight she has been perfectly calm.

 

If you want to try to bulid her enthusiasm for the soft crate, you might try Premacking the crate by cueing her out of it as a reward for going in.

 

So, you cue her in - have her wait just a second, and then call her out and play a game she enjoys or something else she loves. Continue to cue in, release, play (or whatever) until she is running in there on her own and then build duration before calling her out.

 

We often only think of giving lots of treats in the crate - and that can be good enough for a dog that does not have a particular issue with the crate - but we can often make the crate a much higher value item by using a release from inside as a reward for going in.

 

I need to go back and do this with Speedy. He will tolerate a soft crate when we are out and about, but he doesn't love it. Now that I've done this with Dean, it's time to go back and fill in some gaps for my other ones!

[MickeyDogs]

Here's an article on crating you might find helpful.

[JohnLloydJones]

If you want to try to bulid her enthusiasm for the soft crate, you might try Premacking the crate by cueing her out of it as a reward for going in.

 

Really this is only an issue when we are at agility and it's dark. At home she makes herself comfy in it without a problem. I bought the crate ahead of the beginners class and for the duration of that class (held Saturday mornings) she behaved perfectly. This behaviour started when we moved to the next class which was held late evening. We broke that class for other reasons and have just begun at a new venue. At the first class she was restless, but became calm when I gave her a down command. With evenings getting lighter, the problem will hopefully go away in a few weeks. I wonder if the root cause is the limited visibility through the mesh in poor light is making her insecure?

[Root Beer]

At the first class she was restless, but became calm when I gave her a down command. With evenings getting lighter, the problem will hopefully go away in a few weeks. I wonder if the root cause is the limited visibility through the mesh in poor light is making her insecure?

 

Could be. You could always Premack up her going into a crate in a completely dark space at home if it were to remain an issue, but chances are that if she gets more comofrtable in the crate as the evenings get lighter, she will be familiar enough with it by fall that it won't be a problem.

 

But if not, you could still Premack it with a game like I described above. You could start out in a dark room at home and turn the lights on as part of the release so she learns that being in the dark crate is rewarding. The technique is very versatile that way!

[sixx]

Today we went looking for crates, then I realized I had no clue which kind to get her?? There are fabric crates, metal crates and platic crates. The plastic ones are nice because they can get banged around and be fine, the ones I looked at didn't have a handle (which is maybe only useful for trying to carry into practice or a show). The metal ones were nice because they were collapsable (could be easier to manage carrying while having your dogs leash in the other hand), but they seemed kind of cheap in a sense. The fabric ones were okay. They seemed really soft and plushy but could tear at some point (they also had a pouch on top for storring treats or something which was nice).

 

Does anyone know which is the best kind for sports and such?

 

Seek was really cute in helping me look at the crates. Each time I would open the door to one Seek would go in and show me that she could turn around in them and wasn't afraid. I think this will be easy.

 

p.s. I taught Seek a new trick today, nothing fancy. I taught her paw. She learned it in about 5 minutes. It's amazing how fast she learns. When I taught her touch, it was literally a matter of minutes before she figured it out and I could add a command to it. I was hoping her new trick would be helpful in figuring out if she's a righty or lefty. Each time I would use the command, she would switch paws, go figure. Even at flyball practice, we did the fetch method (throw a ball, see which way she turns to come back) and she when left and right. Maybe she's ambidextrous.

[2 Devils]

Some dogs can go either way... a different exercise to try to figure out which way seek turns - instead of fetching the ball - clear out a corner and place the ball in the corner. Try to line Seek up exactly middle of the ball and send her to the ball. Do that 10 times and see what you get....

 

For the crate: I would probably get a plastic or metal one and not fabric. Until you know a dog will not try to get out of the crate you don't do the fabric ones. They do make some plastic crates that are collapsible which are great.

 

To help a dog get used to a crate, I feed all meals in the crate plus the treat thing.

 

Flyball is a ton of fun.

[sixx]

For the crate: I would probably get a plastic or metal one and not fabric. Until you know a dog will not try to get out of the crate you don't do the fabric ones. They do make some plastic crates that are collapsible which are great.

 

 

The fabric ones didn't seem right. Especially since, being new to a crate, they can be chewed up easily. I did like the idea of a plastic one, because they seem more like a den, and less exposed, which may make Seek feel more secure.

[JohnLloydJones]

The fabric ones were okay. They seemed really soft and plushy but could tear at some point (they also had a pouch on top for storring treats or something which was nice).

 

Does anyone know which is the best kind for sports and such?

Senneca has a wire crate for home and a soft crate for agility and traveling. The soft crate is nice and easy to set up and take down. The minus is that a dog can rip it shreds in just a few moments if they are detirmined to get out. I would be reluctant to leave a dog unsupervised in a soft crate unless I was very confident that he wouldn't attempt to escape. Wire crate can also be packed down, but are a bit heavier and awkward to setup and take down.

[sixx]

Have you heard of a crate called Ithaca? That is the brand they sell at the granary. They look really nice and sturdy and have a lock on the outside. Even the latches to keep the top and bottom together look amazing and unbreakable.

[Ninso]

I use metal crates for home and fabric crates for anything else. I hate the plastic crates--most of them are kind of diamond-shaped, rather than square, so there is not as much room in them as it looks like there is. Plus they don't collapse so they are a pain to cart around. The metal crates collapse, but they are heavy and cumbersome, so I really hate bringing them places as well. I love my collapsible fabric crates for classes and competitions. Yes, some dogs chew them, but if you don't think Seek will I would definitely get one! If you're not sure, maybe a metal one to start and a fabric one later. I like to have both.

[Root Beer]

I like metal for home use and fabric for out and about use. Since I have so many dogs, I have accumulated two of each, so I do have options.

 

If started with just metal and it worked until I got tired of lugging it around!

[Ooky]

Add me to the metal for home, fabric for away club. The fabric one seems better for when you already have a crate-trained dog, but they look so much nicer. People at my work comment frequently on how attractive Odin's crate is, which makes me laugh because it's a dog crate. And it's for an 80-lb dog (supposedly) but is easy to carry and fits in the trunk of my teeny tiny car.

 

Sixx, it sounds like Seek is doing great! I'm glad you found a sport you both like.

[Root Beer]

BTW, for portable crates, I recommend the Port-a-Crates. They are more expensive than some, but they are pretty sturdy and they have a flap on top that you can zip open. That's nice for tossing treats in to a dog that you are teaching to remain calm in the crate.

 

I teach my dogs not only to be in a portable crate, but to remain inside with the top flap open. It takes a bit of planning and training, but it's really nice to be able to sit next to my dog with the top of the crate open at indoor trials. I can zip the top closed if necessary, but I rarely do.

[sixx]

Kristine I will check into those crates. They sound great.

 

I came up with a good plan. Today I bought a cheap fabric crate from Target. They were $20. So it's not a big deal if it gets ripped up, although I don't want Seek to think it's okay to rip, but if worse comes to worse it was cheap. I am going to buy a metal crate this upcoming week. I am going to start Seek on the crate training.

 

Yes indeed Ooky, we are having the time of our lives. I am so in love with my dog! I've been reading all about positive training. I never ever want to be negative with Seek. It's neat to learn positive punishment techniques. Seek is very happy. I see how her personality is changing with these techniques and she loves to learn. Although she recently picked up a weird habit.. when she see's a dog walk towards us, she crouches like she is herding (note: she loves all dogs), then when they get closer it's back to being friends and sniffing and wagging tales.