Looking for a livestock dog trainer

[BC-Liz]

I have a question for all of you then that are active herding dog owners. If I'm never going to own sheep and may not take part in many trials, is this something I should invest my time into? I love the idea of giving my pups the chance to do what their breed intended. That's really why I'm considering this...as another avenue for my dogs to have a fulfilling life. But I don't know that I'll be able to pursue sheep herding trials and the like.

 

I figure I'll be able to get this answered over and over again at the clinic too. Plus I'll get to see all your wonderful dogs in action.

 

Just a thought..

[Chesney's Girl]

I think you should still do it regardless of your immediate plans you have, since plans could very well change once you're roped in

 

I think it's good for the soul of the dogs to work. When I first started working Chesney he was just way more relaxed once we got into a regular routine of herding. Good luck not getting hooked. I failed miserably

[MagRam]

You're going to go home from the clinic with a head ache from all the information to be learned from a first time at one of Jacks clinics...

 

Don't feel bad about driving long ways, I drive sometimes twice a week to work with Anna and that's easily an hour and half drive one way. I can't think of a better way to spend a day!

 

 

Here's a very brief preview for the Jack clinic -- "Correct the wrong and let right happen"

 

It took me a while before I began to think I understood this but it is a central Jack philosophy. Basically be ready to correct the dog when it is wrong and to let your dog figure out the right way and don't get in its face when it is doing right. Once you grasp the method and philosophy - it is phenomenal.

 

I know I am looking forward to working with Jack again when he comes to Anna's in Feb.

[Pippin's person]

I think you should still do it regardless of your immediate plans you have, since plans could very well change once you're roped in

 

Ha, ha, truer words.....I remember telling Grenzehund after our first or second time out--"Well, this seems fine for the dogs, but I don't imagine it becoming something we do all that seriously." Famous last words and all that.

[airbear]

.....I remember telling Grenzehund after our first or second time out--"Well, this seems fine for the dogs, but I don't imagine it becoming something we do all that seriously."

Oh yeah! When I first took Bear out to try the sheep dog thing, my boyfriend at the time asked, "Is this going to be a regular thing?" I told him nah, I don't like to be outside, maybe I'll just get some titles on the dog and call it a day.

 

So 6 years later, I never did put a herding title on Bear, and I am spending considerably more time outside (much to my chagrin). I've got one dog with whom I enter 10-12 trials a year, another baby dog in training, I manage the BC Stock Dog Association Web Site, and I'm also the Trial Director. The best laid plans and all that ...

[Sue R]

I travel almost three hours each way to a good handler/trainer and so can only go about once a month at best. I go anywhere between three and six hours each way to get to a quality clinic. That also limits the clinics I can attend.

 

It is worth every bit to travel to a good trainer/clinician who will give both you and your dog quality instruction. It will save time, money, and frustration (as well as lost opportunities to progress from the get-go and not have to go back and make too many "repairs"). Bad instruction will mess you and your dog up. Good instruction will only help you if you apply yourself.

 

Good but slower training and progress (due to distance and not being able to train as often) is always better than rapid but not-so-good training and "progress".

 

Welcome to the addiction!

[bcnewe2]

I guess I should mention that my job is still based in MO and all my family lives there too. I have to go to the office once a month or so. I make a big circle ending at my friends house talking/working dogs.

I also have lots of sheep friends in St. Louis so I make a long weekend of visiting fam. and working dogs the whole time. Couldn't ask for a better way to go. That's the mental health part.

 

I think if anyone gets into working dogs, driving is something you quickly adjust to. I do have a limit as to how far I will go for trials, and clinics. Thank doG that it's not more than 6.5

 

I'm going home in 2 weeks for only 2 days (kid grad. college) and I thought for a moment I wouldn't take any dogs, no time to work them. Then I quickly realized it'd be like driving with your seatbelt unbuckled if I were to travel without a dog.

 

Amazing what we do for the love of work.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

There's just nothing like it. You will, if you "get into it" enough to see the Big Picture, start seeing what really makes your dogs tick. It's a whole different way of viewing the world, even if you never get any further than doing it on occasional weekends.

 

There are people who go to Jack Knox clinics in the Mid Atlantic, who do nothing with their dogs but go to the maybe four clinics within driving distance, a year. It's funny to think of but they really have a Zenlike relationship with their dogs - very centered. Each time their dogs go to the clinics, though they haven't seen Jack in months usually, they pick up where they left off, and no one is bothered by the fact that it's taking years to make basic progress.

 

But it's about the journey for them, I assume.

[BC-Liz]

So it sounds like from what everyone is saying that giving your dogs the chance to work sheep is like finally fulfilling their lives. Does it really change them that much? That sounds spectacular. I can just look in my dogs eyes and see that they're bored, even though there's plenty that we do. I'm excited about the clinic. I won't be participating but I'll have my pups with me. Thanks for all the great advice and stories! I look forward to reading more.

[Pippin's person]

Does it really change them that much?

 

I think it's more that it really changes *you*

[PSmitty]

I think it's more that it really changes *you*

 

Amen, sista!

 

Liz, if you're like most of us, once you see your dog out there with the sheep, you'll understand. Even more so, after *you* get out there with your dog and the sheep. I was hooked from the first time, and I don't even have a "real" border collie. I don't know about it fulfilling some deep need in the dog, but I do believe that there are benefits to it (for you, the dog and your relationship), even if you only go occasionally. You'd be surprised, as Becca said, that the dogs pick right up where they left off.

 

My Jack is a dog with issues. He's fearful, reactive, noise sensitive, unconfident, to name a few things. To see him on sheep, he's a different dog. Confident, happy, stress-free. To say it does him good is an understatement. And for me? I love it more than any other dog activity I do with my dogs (I actually love it more than almost *any* activity I do ). There is just something right about it, even when my dog doesn't lie down, or runs the sheep over top of me.

 

Have a great time at the clinic! Can't wait to hear what you and your dogs think. I have a feeling you'll be joining the "club" along with the rest of us addicts.

[nancy in AZ]

I get it! It's like when I took my squirrely little QH mare to a trainer for a tune up before putting her up for sale. I had been in a cowpen with her a handful of times. Didn't really know what I was doing, but could feel the electricity in her. Well sir, this trainer was riding her and opened up the cow pen. When I saw her turn over her hocks and go after that cow, head down, I burst into tears. I'm signed up to take Jill next Sat to see if she shows any interest in stock work.

[hsnrs]

Nancy, who are you going to? There is a BC club forming up in your area. You might be interested. Also, a herding club meeting a week from Sunday in Arizona City. Narita in Willcox

[Pearse]

I have a question for all of you then that are active herding dog owners. If I'm never going to own sheep and may not take part in many trials, is this something I should invest my time into? I love the idea of giving my pups the chance to do what their breed intended. That's really why I'm considering this...as another avenue for my dogs to have a fulfilling life. But I don't know that I'll be able to pursue sheep herding trials and the like.

 

I figure I'll be able to get this answered over and over again at the clinic too. Plus I'll get to see all your wonderful dogs in action.

 

Just a thought..

 

I would say no. Your dogs don't need this to have a fulfilling life. If you enjoy it, fine. If your lifelong dream is to buy a farm and raise sheep, go for it. But don't fall for the trap that says you own a Border Collie, and Border Collies are herding dogs, therefore you must let your Border Collie realize his/her genetic destiny. It's a load of rubbish. It also brings a lot of people into "herding" that have no interest in or affinity for livestock. Some are lucky enough to get in with the right people and develop resepect for the stock, but I see more and more people showing up at trials for whom sheep are just dog toys.

 

Your Border Collie will be perfectly happy and fulfilled just being your dog.

 

Pearse

[appyridr]

I would say no. Your dogs don't need this to have a fulfilling life. If you enjoy it, fine. If your lifelong dream is to buy a farm and raise sheep, go for it. But don't fall for the trap that says you own a Border Collie, and Border Collies are herding dogs, therefore you must let your Border Collie realize his/her genetic destiny. It's a load of rubbish. It also brings a lot of people into "herding" that have no interest in or affinity for livestock. Some are lucky enough to get in with the right people and develop resepect for the stock, but I see more and more people showing up at trials for whom sheep are just dog toys.

 

Your Border Collie will be perfectly happy and fulfilled just being your dog.

 

Well said as usual Pearse. I would also add that there is nothing sadder than seeing a keen fast young dog running amok in frustration because of inexperienced handling. Border Collies are not happy 'just' to work sheep, if they are not shown how to work correctly, they are going to feel panic and great stress. So going to a good trainer is very important as well as making a commitment to go often enough that your dog learns to be successful. Which does mean necessarily mean up to a trial level, but means able to work under control and with care & consideration for the stock.

cheers Lani

[Pearse]

Well said as usual Pearse. I would also add that there is nothing sadder than seeing a keen fast young dog running amok in frustration because of inexperienced handling. Border

 

It's not so much that. While I agree that too often inexperienced handlers rush, or are encouraged to rush, into trialling before they and their dog are ready, that is really secondary to this poster's question.

 

She indicated that she had no real interest in stock work, had no expectation or interest in owning stock, and was really only considering going for lessons because she felt it was the right thing to do for the dog.

 

I believe that while many Border Collies truly love stockwork, those that don't do it can be perfectly happy. The dogs love it but they don't need it and won't miss it, especially if they've never been exposed to it.

 

It's also true that many people (like me) who never ever considered themselves to be interested in stock work, end up loving it as much as the dogs do, learn to appreciate stock, and end up rearranging their lives to raise their own. However, if you are have no interest at all, I don't think you should feel that somehow you are letting your dog down by not driving six hours a week for two thirty minute lessons. Spend the six hours your dog would spend in the crate in the car doing something else with him and you'll have a happier dog and less of a gas bill.

 

Pearse

[DeltaBluez Tess]

Heck, I remember when I used to take my dogs for 20-30 minutes of working velcro sheep....a 2 hr drive each way and sometimes 2 x a week because I wanted them to fulfill themselves and make them more confident. I did this for years. I had no interest in sheep but letting my dogs work them. I went to an all breed trainer (AKC and ASCA). we didn't do well at all...in fact, we sucked in AKC!! (We didn't run ASCA then)

 

I used to drive a brand new red RX7 too. I used to be a yuppie too. We had a yuppie house. The dogs were NOT allowed on the furniture or bed.

 

<SIGH> ...then....it happened.

 

I got a lesson from Scott G..a BC top handler...and quit the all breed trainer.....and next thing you know...Tess got a sheep farm for her 2nd birthday and life has never been the same. The *AH HA* moment was when we realized we really had a talented dog and the only way to make her (and me) successful was to jump in with both feet....don't have the sport car, the dogs are on the bed and couch and out house has dog hair.

 

I would do it again in a flash.

 

However, some of the same people go to the same place (all breed trainer) and still can't get around the course and sad to say, I see frustration in their dog's eyes and body when I see them at the arena trials.

 

It changed my life for the better and now I see sheep in a totally new light. Not a sheep to chase around for 30 minutes and leave but real live animals with personalities and feelings. Some of them are my pets and I love them dearly.

 

Go take lessons to learn something...like how to work with your dog and livestock. You will see things in a different light.

 

I know people who have Border Collies and never will set foot on a farm but do other sports. Their dogs and they are happy....they are doing something.

 

Love your dogs for what you can do with them and not what you should do with them.

[BC-Liz]

All this insite is priceless, i'm glad I asked. I don't know how serious I'll take the herding thing. I'd like to at least see what it's about. I know while I would like to have a farm some day, that it's probably not in the cards for me. I also want to travel, and I won't be easy to have someone dog watch (when they can't come with us), let along watch a farm. So having my own livestock is probably out of the question.

 

We have a local vet office that has agility and flyball classes. They've already taken a couple agility classes there and love it. We'll see what happens. Nothing in stone yet, just wanna see what it's about...thus I'm going to the clinic in January.

 

Thanks again for all the replies!