to keep or not to keep

[brshell]

The Topic and Description say it all; I've got a dorper X that has been nothing but problems since birth...

 

first, the mother would not accept her at birth, and would keep her from nursing, and I had to bottle feed from 2 days old.

 

Next, the first birth at 1.2 years old, both the blue bag and clear bag came out... and nothing. She didn't dialate, she wouldn't push. had to go in with my hands and found that the first lamb was breach... had to turn the lamb around, and pull it out. the second was in the correct position. but still had to pull the lamb out. cuz the birth canal was closed tighter than tight. Both lambs survived, and I kept the female for breeding. The mother came through it with no problems.

 

Next lambing season was just a couple of days ago, and the same darn thing, no dialation, no pushing, lamb was again breach, unfortunately missed when the bags came out. and had to pull 2 dead lambs out of her. Again she lived through it fine...

 

But my question is... is this a cronic condition, that I will have to help her every season? If that's the case, she will no longer be a breeder!

 

Thanks in advance to anyone that posts a response!

 

Best Regards

 

Brad Shell

[juliepoudrier]

I would think if she's had the same problems through two lambings that you've given her enough chances and it's time to cull her.

 

J.

[stockdogranch]

Definitely. Down the road,

 

A

[Lenajo]

Everything else ok with her? yes - then ship her. If she's way overweight you could thin her down and try again if you think that's the problem. How are the rest of your ewes handling lambing by that ram? are they the same type of cross as the problem ewe?

 

Most of the time the simpliest ,and in the end the best thing, to do is to simply have a no-tolerance policy for this sort of thing.

[Bill Fosher]

Unless other ewes under the same management were also having problems, I would ship her. If she's one of several, I would look at management. Lack of uterine contraction can be due to low blood calcium. Failure to dilate can be caused by selenium deficiency. But given that she came out of a ewe that had low maternal drive, I would suspect that she inherited a poor hormonal system that is not sending the right signals at the right times. Oxytocin is involved in both dilation and contraction, and also stimulates milk letdown and maternal bonding behavior.

 

Bottom line: do you need this ewe for anything in particular? If not, perhaps her best way to serve you is as mutton or cash from the sale barn.

[NorthfieldNick]

Ewes in my flock like that have a name:

 

Sausage.

[bexie]

If any others have problems, check selenium. It tends to be deficient in a cyclic pattern and varies by location. We are almost always deficient here in DK where I live and last year was awful for calving. We give our mares extra before foaling.

[Peg Haese]

Nick says, "Ewes in my flock like that have a name: Sausage."

 

Or Dog Food, right? Right now we have Sausage (barren two-year-old), Dog Food (bad mom), and Dog Food #2 (also bad mom) waiting for a trip to the butcher. Lamb Chop (a Katahdin with a malformed teat, not from mastitis) is already in the freezer and she tastes really good.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I've got a poor doer heading for the freezer after we are done moving.

 

I do agree abot the selenium though. We've got zilch here - last year I ran out of BoSe right before lambing (actually I lost my full bottle which I later found), and had several issues before I got my hands on some (thanks Julie and Mary!) and shot everyone up. I usually top everyone up once before lambing and then again when the lambs are about two months old.

 

But, if she's doing that and not everyone else is, even if it is a selenium problem, that still means that she's more sensitive to it than everyone else. I'd be reluctant to spread that characteristic through my flock.

[JaderBug]

Just a thought that crossed my mind... if you had such severe lambing problems with the ewe, isn't it a bad idea to continue those genes by using her ewe lamb as a replacement ewe?

[Bill Fosher]

Myself, I wouldn't have kept her in the first place, since she was a bottle lamb. But I would definitely not keep any of her offspring. Again, unless she was one of several ewes having the same problem, and that problem could be traced to management rather than genetics.

[Caroline Reichard]

I try to cull any ewe that has had a potentially repeatable problem during lambing or has had trouble raising good lambs under conditions in which the other members of the flock have done well. I learned to do that from forums like this and from successful shepherds who managed flocks I admired, and it has helped my flock a lot. I have never regretted culling a ewe; I have regretted not culling, though!

 

If a ewe has a big problem during lambing involving my playing OB/GYN or, worse yet, social worker to her children, she will probably be culled. Exceptions include big lambs or complicated presentations; I don't blame the ewe for that. Very slow delivery and/or substandard post partum behavior definitely gets a ewe culled. (She will have a better chance of getting a second opportunity if she is a first-time mother.) Being a mean mother is the worst thing a ewe can do, IMO: it's the only way that a sheep can make me really angry with it. It is also a poor lookout for a ewe if she is extra- skinny or her lambs are small when everyone is father and bigger. It I remember her # once I am in the house, she goes on the list. Lambs that do not grow out well or have been bottle fed for any significant number of days don't get kept in the first place. My daughter can get sentimental about some bad sheep. They may not be culled, but they won't be bred.

 

Some days I feel like a real witch , but come lambing time I am always happier. Healthy ewes that lamb on their own and then raise those lambs w/out any help are the goal of the shepherd.

[Smokjbc]

I also cull anything with a problem that needs intervention, with minor exceptions for first time mothers. I don't live near my sheep, although someone is on the property to notify me if something is wrong. That person is already hyper enough about things that are not that problematic (which is good I know!). I only jug first time mothers if they aren't staying with their lambs, but I've never had any rejected lambs. The main thing I've culled for lately was killer ewes- I don't mind protective mothers- that's a good thing, but I had three related ewes that were good to handle until they lambed. My main lambing dog, Jane, is a very good dog- kind to her stock and stays back but these ewes all turned into "hunt the dog down and kill it" attitudes, that did not get better so they were shipped off as soon as possible. I won't risk injury to a good dog because of ignorant sheep.

[stockdogranch]

these ewes all turned into "hunt the dog down and kill it" attitudes

 

Haha. That made me chuckle. I have had a few like that, but I really don't mind them. I figure it is the dog's job to read that pressure and adjust accordingly. The younger dogs (like 2 and under) sometimes have a bit of a hard time figuring that out, but once they mature a bit and have "been around the block" a few times, they seem to get it. But then again, these dogs are used to cattle that sometimes have a "hunt the dog down and kill it" attitude, so a ewe with lambs might not be such a deal to them. Anyway, maybe I'm weird in that I really like serious challenges for my dogs,

 

A

[Smokjbc]

Haha. That made me chuckle. I have had a few like that, but I really don't mind them. I figure it is the dog's job to read that pressure and adjust accordingly. The younger dogs (like 2 and under) sometimes have a bit of a hard time figuring that out, but once they mature a bit and have "been around the block" a few times, they seem to get it. But then again, these dogs are used to cattle that sometimes have a "hunt the dog down and kill it" attitude, so a ewe with lambs might not be such a deal to them. Anyway, maybe I'm weird in that I really like serious challenges for my dogs,

 

 

A

 

 

Actually- with these particular ewes, Jane was more than willing to "teach" them better manners- but they refused to learn. Jane isn't super tough, but she will bite and would not give up with those ewes- they got worse instead of better so they went down the road. Normally, I would assume that it was the dog being to easy or not experienced enough, but Jane put in a good effort and got ground into the floor several times for it. Not worth the hassle, I have plenty of ewes that are able to process information and learn from it .

[NancyO]

If no one else is having a problem, then she would be shipped. I don't live at my farm and need to keep ewes that can lamb on thier own.

 

You need to sort out management problems from sheep problems. I've learned not to overfeed ewes that look like they will single as the single will often be large and a difficult birth. This is not a ewe problem but a management problem on my part.

 

But it sounds like you've given her a chance, and it probably is time to move her along.