In defense of AKC...

[Northof49]

Please do not get me started on the GSD in America or you will have me ranting and frothing at the mouth We had a wonderful working bred, SV registered GSD and if you want to see what a breed organization should be, that is a good one. Each country/region is assigned a Breed Warden. This person had to be very knowledgeable about all aspects of the breed (and the ability to read/understand German too). He or she would judge each dog before it could be bred. At a minimum, the hips had to be rated "A" or in OFA "normal" or better; the dog must have attained a working title of SchI or better;

 

Which leads me to pose the question(which I realize is shifting away from the topic, BUT it is always something I have been curious about) - why is the GSD, Belgian Shepherd, and some other breeds still in the "herding/Pastoral" Groups with the different kennel clubs?. Both these breeds, and some others, are not judged for "working instinct" by their ability to still work stock - they are judged how they stand up to police work training etc. So, the working standard these dogs are tested for has totally changed. To me they should be in the "Working Groop" along with Dobermans, ' Boxers, , Siberian Huskies, etc.

[juliepoudrier]

There are still folks who breed and show GSDs who also participate in the AKC herding program with them. And there are also the versatility folks who participate in both herding trials and schutzhund. But the AKC "C course" is a tending course designed for tending breeds like the GSD. From what I gather the course isn't offered much, but it is part of AKC's herding program and probably serves as some sort of justification for leaving them in the group where they started out--herding. (This goes for the Belgian breeds too, although I don't know if their original purpose was tending or some other form of stockwork.)

 

J.

[Sue R]

I believe the groups are a historical classification, rather than a reflection of modern-day usages. If they were "modernized", there would have to be a great deal of changes made.

 

Generally, I think they are so much hot air with regards to most breeds nowadays.

[NRhodes]

There are actually some people who still use german shepherds and belgians to tend flocks.

Take a look here: http://www.whitecloversheepfarm.com/sh-home.htm

[Chesney's Girl]

Which leads me to pose the question(which I realize is shifting away from the topic, BUT it is always something I have been curious about) - why is the GSD, Belgian Shepherd, and some other breeds still in the "herding/Pastoral" Groups with the different kennel clubs?. Both these breeds, and some others, are not judged for "working instinct" by their ability to still work stock - they are judged how they stand up to police work training etc. So, the working standard these dogs are tested for has totally changed. To me they should be in the "Working Groop" along with Dobermans, ' Boxers, , Siberian Huskies, etc.

 

I think that goes to show you how silly the AKC is when it comes to classifying and labeling breeds of dogs and having standards for the.

 

I just went to "work" (video taping for a friend) at a GSD geared clinic on how to train for the C course not to long ago. Like almost all the AKC trials that are in herding, it is a little bit comical. The woman that was running the clinic said she had to train her sheep before she could train her dog... Now tell me how using "trained" sheep promotes true honest to goodness working ability? If your sheep are trained... why have a dog? The AKC is for the fanciers and people want to play with their dogs, plan and simple. They are a detriment to those who still really need certain dogs for real life jobs. Its a shame.

[NancyO]

There are actually some people who still use german shepherds and belgians to tend flocks.

Take a look here: http://www.whitecloversheepfarm.com/sh-home.htm

 

A few years ago I bought sheep from Ulf, owner of White Clover Sheep Farm. He used one of his german shepherds to gather a group of sheep, bring them into a holding area, sort them, hold the sheep for inspection and resort the ones I wanted. A very useful dog and it's conformation was nothing like the AKC german shepherds you see.

 

Nancy O

[Northof49]

There are actually some people who still use german shepherds and belgians to tend flocks.

Take a look here: http://www.whitecloversheepfarm.com/sh-home.htm

 

I know there are, but they are very few and far between and when you look at the breed books etc., when they test for working ability/instinct to ensure that the "working ability" of the breed is passed on, its not stock work

 

Friends of mine have Belgian Shepherds and all their books etc describe the testing for instinct - nothing to do with stock work whatsoever - it's all having to do with schutzhund training. Their one Malinois that I had the chance to work with demonstrated awesome tending abilities - she made an excellent moving fence (they are not supposed to work like a border collie, they are supposed to be a moving fence).

[Mona Howard]

These are not my words but a quote from another poster. I can't seem to use the quote highlight

for some reason!

 

QUOTE(Mona Howard @ Nov 9 2008, 04:34 PM)

Please do not get me started on the GSD in America or you will have me ranting and frothing at the mouth We had a wonderful working bred, SV registered GSD and if you want to see what a breed organization should be, that is a good one. Each country/region is assigned a Breed Warden. This person had to be very knowledgeable about all aspects of the breed (and the ability to read/understand German too). He or she would judge each dog before it could be bred. At a minimum, the hips had to be rated "A" or in OFA "normal" or better; the dog must have attained a working title of SchI or better;

 

Just to clarify!! Mona