Working videos

[Chesney's Girl]

I am being brave and showing you guys some training videos of Chesney and I shedding. (input is ALWAYS welcome) We're coming along, and I think its really fun, challenging.... but fun!

 

All three of these dogs are in different stages of training with different handler experience!

 

You can choose to watch all the videos in high quality

 

Calli and Donna working in the big kids play area. Forgive all the talking in the video! Donna and Calli are really doing very well together. You should just watch with no sound!

 

Then there is little miss Dot, affectionately known as Dot Head.

She is 15 weeks and quite full of herself!

[PSmitty]

Thanks for sharing, Danielle! I always find I pick up *something* from watching others. So far, I've only watched Dottie's videos. And what I've picked up is that I WANT HER!

 

I'll check out the rest later when I'm supposed to be working...

[ItsADogsLyfe]

great videos!

[stockdogranch]

So far, I've only watched Dottie's videos. And what I've picked up is that I WANT HER!

 

In about a year, she'll be for sale...

 

A

[PSmitty]

In about a year, she'll be for sale...

 

A

 

And by then, too rich for my pockets! She's a neat little looking little one, though!

 

Oh, and I watched the other videos. Nice job, Donna and Danielle. I have no clue on shedding, but I enjoyed watching them all.

[Amelia]

Hello all, My suggestions on teaching the shed would be to first watch Alasdaire's video on how to teach it, if you haven't already. It appears that your dog is enjoying himself, which is good, but you're not effectively giving him the idea of how to shed properly.

 

In the beginning, I create a big hole without the dog's help while turning my body onto the sheep I want, then call him through (this assumes I've already taught him effectively to come when i call him). at the point at which he starts to come towards me, I cross behind the sheep going to their heads while giving him a flank in the opposite direction from the one I'm traveling. In other words, me and the dog cross between the 2 groups of sheep, he gets excited because I've given him a flank and then it turns into a fetch on the ones i want, which he just loves. all of this is designed to create excitement and confidence about coming through the hole and is the reason why the great ones come through a sliver without hesitation in a fraction of a second. they completely understand what's being asked of them and they love it.

 

dogs usually get this figured out quickly because it's so much fun for them. tips: don't face your dog when you call him through, the pressure can be intimidating making them hesitatant to come through at all, and you tell them with your body which ones you want. i like my dogs to come through behind me, so in the beginning i make sure he does, even if i have to step into or towards my sheep when i start to cross behind them on my way to turning it into a fetch. it's more fun for a dog to come in on the heads, so make every attempt to set this up asap.

 

another tip. sometimes I put a few sheep in the back of a smallish pen (50x75', a rectangle works best for this) with the gate open to create a draw. i put my self on one side, the dog on the other between the sheep and the gate and when the sheep try to break to the gate, i call the dog to me to stop them. this simplifies the lesson because the sheep are confined somewhat, it makes it easier to always call the dog in on the nose as all the sheep are heading in the same direction towards the gate and because the sheep (my sheep anyway) are breaking pretty hard for the gate, it makes it really fun and challenging for the dog. this is not the way i would teach a shed initially, but it's the way i sharpen it and eventually i can let the sheep out one at a time, which teaches the basics of an international shed.

 

good luck with it and have fun

[Chesney's Girl]

Amelia,

 

Thanks for the tips I have been trying to get Chesney to come in behind me but my feeling is if he comes in sensibly I'm ok with him coming in front of me. This is really only the third time we've actually practiced shedding, so I am pleased with him. I will give some of your help a try next time we work. Thanks!

[Amelia]

Cheers and hello. because it's at hand when you're first teaching the shed, i would suggest you make the dog come through behind you. it's just a good habit to get into and will prevent your dog from slicing when he does come in. after all, what you're asking for when you call the dog through is a flank and, at the shed in particular, it needs to be square to be effective. depending on the sheep, slicing can predispose the 2 groups to rejoin and that's no fun at all. also, if your dog comes through in front, it's a little harder for you to get to the heads and turn it into a fetch, which is really the key to the whole thing initially. remember when you get to the heads, your dog needs to be on balance pretty much directly between the 2 groups.

 

depending on my distance from the sheep when i call the dog in, my dog may have to come through in front of me, but i make sure he's square when he does. when you try it again, ask yourself whether your dog is slicing when he comes through in front of you and i'm sorry i'm so bad at this e-training stuff. it's just so much easier to demonstrate in person.

 

have fun...

[Chesney's Girl]

Hi Amelia,

 

I have one question for you about shedding.

 

if your dog comes through in front, it's a little harder for you to get to the heads and turn it into a fetch, which is really the key to the whole thing initially

 

Why do I have to turn it into a fetch if my dog knows how to drive against pressure?

[Amelia]

Great question. thanks for asking. Answer; because it's so much easier and so much more fun for a dog to fetch than drive. remember you're trying to create excitement and great enthusiasm for the task at hand. when you initially teach the shed, you want the dog to be thinking "wheeeeee, i love this". a dog can come through and drive them away, it's just more fun for him to come through when he knows he'll get to bring 'em after he does.

 

also, you want him to completely let go of and forget about the cast offs and be confident with that decision. in the beginning, when they're driving sheep away, they're more likely to look back and/or worry about the castoffs, especially the ones that correctly prefer to hold everything together. also, with you at the heads and him fetching, it's a lot easier for you to help him finish the flank (which is really the shed) squarely and completely. again, if he slices coming through, you're sheep can more easily regroup or you'll never even get your shed (or a hole) and sheep will just circle around you. bad feeling. i hope that makes sense.

 

if you ask him to come through and then drive, he's likely to be thinking "oh pressure, i have to come through sheep", and then "oh, more pressure, i have to drive them away." think of a young kid sliding down a slide as opposed to one pushing himself up one. when you push yourself off and slide down then go flying off the end, you hit the ground running back around to the top and do it again with joy. if you pushed yourself up one, you may say to hell with it, this is no fun, and go off to swing.

 

the key to a great shedding dog is having him love it and that's best accomplished from day 1. it's so much easier to teach a dog to shed properly from the beginning than it is to ask him for a do-over.

 

hope this helps. cheers

[Laurae]

Nice videos, Danielle--Chesney looks great!

Amelia, thanks for the detailed explanation of teaching shedding. Really helpful.

[Chesney's Girl]

Thanks Amelia. I only asked about the fetching, because Chesney really does seem to enjoy driving... a lot actually. He took to driving like a duck to water, and his pace driving has always been WAY more controlled than when fetching. He likes sheep that challenge him too. I guess I made putting a grip on him too much fun Chesney is a slicer on his flanks but as he's gotten older they have gotten squarer (Boys... taking a while to get their big boy brains) So that will come. Right now I just enjoy the fact that he really likes shedding and "gets it". I think the main things we need to do is getting him to come in square, which with more practice, better timing on my part, and time, he will start to square up.

 

And thanks Laura. I like video taping our practice sessions, its so valuable as a training tool for me (I guess growing up on review soccer videos taught me that). You really see your timing for what it is and can put better timing into practice next time that point in work presents itself again.

[Pippin's person]

Nice videos, Danielle--Chesney looks great!

Amelia, thanks for the detailed explanation of teaching shedding. Really helpful.

 

Ditto!

[Denise Wall]

Thanks for posting these. It's always great to see how different people do different things. Please keep posting them.

[workindogs]

I have used Alistair's method (as demonstrated on his video....by me!) with good success. The dogs seem to like it and develop good enthusiasm for it. I also like this method because "crossing the bows" (crossing through the middle) uses natural pressures to pull the dog through. As you pass through the center and around the hip, you are releasing your side of holding the pressure, this sudden release of opposite pressure will draw the dog through to cover (your side). You can magnify this by using nature draws....ie when you are setting up the exercise, position the draw behind you so that when you cross over, the draw is obvious and strong. Do not position the draw behind the dog as he will be reluctant to release the pressure to come through and you will defeat the point of the excerise. By setting the draw behind you, the dog will be "sucked" through the hole (as you call him) and cross over to his side (walking towards the heads).

[Chesney's Girl]

Elizabeth, what if the dog really prefers to come infront? How do you begin to get the dog to come behind you? I have watched Alistair's video, but all the dogs are already coming behind the handler...

[juliepoudrier]

Danielle,

Have you done any exercises to square flanks that would encourage the dog to come behind you? If so, it might help to set up the shed in a similar fashion and also step forward in front of Chesney as you're doing the "crossing the bows" exercise.

 

J.

[Amelia]

Hi all, I think Julie's right on this one. If you're having trouble getting the dog to cross behind you when you teach the shed, back up a step and square up his flanks, then go back to shedding. Many times when you have a problem of some sort, it's because you either taught something incorrectly that preceded it, or you missed a step completely. IMO obedience, respect, a good down and a proper flank (inside and outside) are the fundamentals for everything. I don't think everybody realizes that a good flank translates directly to a good outrun.

 

A horsetrainer friend of mine calls what I do with my youngsters "a little bit of kindergarten every day," because when I'm starting them, I include a refresher on the basics every time I work them. It's what she does with her colts, and don't you just love the phrase?

 

cheers

[Shoofly]

Actually a really simple solution is to make sure you're really close to the group of sheep you're taking off, so there's a lot more room for the dog to cross behind you. It makes the area behind you a lot more attractive than the area in front of you (as in, the dog would slam into the sheep if he tries to go in front of you). If you go back to Alasdair's video, you may note the handlers doing this - i think he's the one who told me to do it that way with a dog that was insisting on crossing in front of me. It was either him or Vergil, i forget which. Good advice though!

[Debbie Meier]

Amelia,

 

Can you give a couple of examples of other places a person should be having the dog go behind the handler and maintaining balance away from the handler, so folks can see where they should be introducing the concept, not just waiting to introduce it when they begin shedding. Also, maybe a couple of excercises to test where the dog is coming up short?

 

 

Deb

[Chesney's Girl]

The flanking and crossing behind us went out the window once he learned to take an inside flank for driving. He was taught to cross behind be for outrunning and flanking to square him up. As far as flanks translating to an outrun, I don't know if that would really work with Chesney. He leaves so square and beautifully from my feet and all his flanks are very square from the start if he is stopped or down first. Its when he is on the move that his flanks get tight (i.e. like the flank on the shed because he is moving forward first then covering and flanking, so he is tight).

 

Robin, I will have to try being close to the sheep to get Chesney to get around behind me. Thanks!

[juliepoudrier]

Debbie,

This isn't quite what you asked, but one example of when it might be necessary for a dog to cross behind you rather than in front is if the sheep you're trying to shed are trying to swirl around the human to get back together. The only real space that will be available for the dog will be behind you (i.e., say a hole has opened and you step back as you call the dog through, but the forward motion of the dog causes the sheep to try to wrap around you. since presumable you will already be facing the sheep you want the dog to hold, there might be a small gap to the back of you still open as the sheep are trying to fold around you--it takes a fast and confident dog to come through in such a case and hold the shed, and the dog absolutely will have to come behind you). This probably isn't much of a concern out west, but there's a reason Alasdair has a whole section on his shedding video about "sheep that clump and swirl"--we get a lot of that out here.

 

Danielle,

If you practice crossing the bows, which really is fun for the dog and really encourages the dog to come through with good speed/no hesitation, you can put Robin's suggestion to practice too. As you're trading sides with your dog, step toward (closer to) the sheep so he's encouraged to flank around behind you. It sounds as if that's how you worked on his flanks anyway, so it should be familiar to him, and he really should be able to take inside flanks and also flank out wider behind you as needed.

 

J.

[Chesney's Girl]

Julie, Thanks! We will try that then. I'm sure it won't take long for him to pick it up.

[Debbie Meier]

Julie, not only is it not quite what I asked, it's not even close, my question was in tune with Amelia's following statement, "Many times when you have a problem of some sort, it's because you either taught something incorrectly that preceded it, or you missed a step completely." Examples and excersises to test your dog away from shedding will help to determine if the dog is ready to properly shed.

 

 

Deb

[juliepoudrier]

Amelia,

 

Can you give a couple of examples of other places a person should be having the dog go behind the handler and maintaining balance away from the handler, so folks can see where they should be introducing the concept, not just waiting to introduce it when they begin shedding. Also, maybe a couple of excercises to test where the dog is coming up short?

Deb

Deb,

This is the comment to which I was responding, and although it's not an example separate from shedding (as I noted), it's not as off base as you imply in your most recent response. Never mind, though, you can always ignore my comments/opinions.

 

J.