in2adventure Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Anyone seen or used this video? I got a copy of the video to help with my guys. They already know "kennel up" and respond more than excitedly to the command. I tried using the techniques on the video a few days ago and they don't get it. I think it even made Grady a bit "kennel bound". I was hoping to improve Lucia's drive to obsticals on the agility course with it. They both look at me like I'm insane while training. "We already know this Mom!" Lucia has learned all her tricks by shape training, so that is not an issue. I think because they already know what the kennel is for and neither don't bolt out the door when opened, the whole "game" is boring to them. I also don't see the need to "kennel up" from across a huge open field. Cool trick, but...... Anyway, just wondering if anyone else used this video and how it turned out for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I've heard of it, but I've never seen it. How is the crate to be used in the game that should increase drive? I'm just curious since I'm not likely to purchase the DVD at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I've heard of it, but I've never seen it. How is the crate to be used in the game that should increase drive? I'm just curious since I'm not likely to purchase the DVD at this point. The idea is to build up drive into the crate and then make the distance greater to the crate. After this is established, and the dog has an understanding of agility obsticals, you place a crate on one side (say the dog walk) and place a crate on the other side. You release the dog from one crate and it drives over/through the obstical to the other crate. They are supposed to be soooooo excited to get back in their crate, it builds speed on the obstical. I've been hearing lots of cons to her training methods on this DVD and wanted to hear other opinions. Hopefully a friendly discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 By the way, I'm not impressed with the DVD. Too complicated and too long to train. It took me less than 5 min to teach what she teaches in two hours. I was hoping the drive part would be a bonus, but see to many future problems to continue using the method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I see. I wouldn't do that myself since I want my dog to associate his or her crate with relaxation and calm. If I had my dog drive into a crate after completing an obstacle, I would then want to see the dog relax, which sounds like it would be contrary to this particular game!! In theory (), I could see some dogs really loving this game, but - as you say - the act of driving into the crate has to be highly rewarding to the dog. I can see it making the crate so rewarding that the dog tries to stay in it instead of going out to do Agility - which wouldn't be a good thing!! I'm guessing that the idea behind this is to build up the framework that the dog is in the crate at a trial, goes out and does the course, and then returns to crate, so Garrett has developed this game to make that a source of drive and focus for the dog. ? Just a guess! I'm nobody next to Susan Garrett, of course, but to my way of thinking there are a great multitude of other ways to go about doing that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I see. I wouldn't do that myself since I want my dog to associate his or her crate with relaxation and calm. If I had my dog drive into a crate after completing an obstacle, I would then want to see the dog relax, which sounds like it would be contrary to this particular game!! In theory (), I could see some dogs really loving this game, but - as you say - the act of driving into the crate has to be highly rewarding to the dog. I can see it making the crate so rewarding that the dog tries to stay in it instead of going out to do Agility - which wouldn't be a good thing!! I'm guessing that the idea behind this is to build up the framework that the dog is in the crate at a trial, goes out and does the course, and then returns to crate, so Garrett has developed this game to make that a source of drive and focus for the dog. ? Just a guess! I'm nobody next to Susan Garrett, of course, but to my way of thinking there are a great multitude of other ways to go about doing that!! Exactly what I was think. Hence the self rewarding and future problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 In theory (), I could see some dogs really loving this game, but - as you say - the act of driving into the crate has to be highly rewarding to the dog. I can see it making the crate so rewarding that the dog tries to stay in it instead of going out to do Agility - which wouldn't be a good thing!! I haven't watched the DVD yet. On Susan's One Jump DVD, her dogs drive to their crates and wait, with the door open until she calls them out again to work. They come driving right back out and are as intense about agility as you would expect with her dogs. I would love to have my dogs have that kind of self control. They will watch quietly from a crate or while tied when I do agility with another dog, but I haven't taught them to lie quietly on their own while I work with another dog. Though Quinn is quite good about staying in a down while I play fetch with the Sheltie. Hence the self rewarding and future problems. Well one thing Susan would never tolerate and that is her dogs self-rewarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Bought the DVD. Regret it. Complete waste of money. Basically she uses the crate as a big target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 After this is established, and the dog has an understanding of agility obsticals, you place a crate on one side (say the dog walk) and place a crate on the other side. You release the dog from one crate and it drives over/through the obstical to the other crate. They are supposed to be soooooo excited to get back in their crate, it builds speed on the obstical. Wouldn't it just be easier to pull a 2 oz. target plate out of your pocket and place it at the far end of the obstacle rather than lugging around a comparitively much heavier crate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Not at $29.95 each. I'm just frustated that I fell for the whole thing. (Really...I'm just trying to find my own snake oil to sell. For only $19.95!) Wouldn't it just be easier to pull a 2 oz. target plate out of your pocket and place it at the far end of the obstacle rather than lugging around a comparitively much heavier crate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsofmenace Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I liked Crate Games a lot..... I like to pick and choose stuff from many different sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerus Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 I thought Crate Games would be a pretty good thing to keep my foster from going crazy during his heartworm training. Obviously, he can't do things like the running from long distances into the crate, but a lot of it is done in the immediate area of the crate without much physical exertion. He already has a pretty solid kennel up, and he wasn't impressed by the games. I absolutely will try it with my heart BC, because his kennel up isn't as hot as it should be (his crate is in use at the moment). For now though, the foster gives it a big thumbs down. Admittedly, he may like it better once he isn't stuck in the crate all day anyway! =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted October 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Wouldn't it just be easier to pull a 2 oz. target plate out of your pocket and place it at the far end of the obstacle rather than lugging around a comparitively much heavier crate? I agree. Part of Lucia's problem is, she doesn't target anything. I've tried a bunch of different things and she doesn't get the point. If I put her at the start of a line of jumps, yell go and throw a ball, she'll blaze through them all. That's good enough for me. She'll never be a star distance dog, but gets better every trial/lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 I agree. Part of Lucia's problem is, she doesn't target anything. I've tried a bunch of different things and she doesn't get the point. If I put her at the start of a line of jumps, yell go and throw a ball, she'll blaze through them all. That's good enough for me. She'll never be a star distance dog, but gets better every trial/lesson. If you want to invest in something to help Lucia with distance, I recommend "Unleashing the Velcro Dog". I can't think of how to spell the author's name right now. I think it's Jean Simmons-Moake. Maddie is the velcro queen. If she even suspects that I want her to run ahead of me to something, she'll stop dead! I got this book and the exercises look really good. I've only done a few of them so far and the results have been good. I want to spend some time this winter working her through some of it. You start out on each exercise by teaching the dog to recall independently over/through each individual piece of equipment and then you do around the clock both with offsetting the dog and offsetting yourself to call the dog through (from a certain distance). Then you turn that around and send the dog and do around the clock and add distance to that. Reading that really was an eye opener for me because yes, we did recalls over jumps and through tunnels waaaaay back in Intro class, but I had never recalled my dog over a contact or through weaves before and I had not recalled my dog over jumps or through tunnels with any significant offset. I want to do all of that with her this winter. I can't remember how much the book cost, but it was worth it. It's got a lot of substance and some really fun ideas. Of course, I do own several jumps, a tunnel, and a set of homemade weave poles and I can get access to contacts to train with on my own. If you can't do that, the book wouldn't be much help because you do need some training time with each piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted October 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Thanks! I've seen the book before, but never had a chance to look at it. I have a tunnel, weaves and jumps at home and will be close enough to a facility starting in Nov. to start real training again. Maddie and Lucia should get together and compare notes on being velcro We were at a trial in July doing a NADAC chances run. It was going great. Our distance was a line of jumps away from the handler with a switch to a tunnel. She did awesome until she hit the tunnel. For some reason she veered off the tunnel at the opening and came running back to me I stopped on the hamdler's line and stomped my feet like a two year old, pointed and yelled "GETBACKINTHATTUNNEL!!!!!". Believe it or not she did The time cost us the Q, but I thought the judge would fall out of her chair laughing at me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 LOLOL!! Chances sounds like Jackpot in CPE. You have to stay behind a line for part of it and send. I'm telling you - I'm going to trip over my feet and go flying over that line someday!! Probably the first time Maddie actually does the distance properly!! Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgileBC Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Sorry I am chimming in late. I followed the first steps of Crate Games, with my young BC, from a handout my instructor handed out a couple years ago. From that experience and what I have read about Susan Garretts training, I see the Crate Games as teaching impulse/self control in addition to drive. I loved that the training process helped teach my dog to have "impulse control" - that is choosing to do what I ask/what has been trained even if something very exciting is going on. For example, Kyla was trained early on to sit at the back (or front) door and wait until relased before going outside. Even if the door is wide open, she will choose to slide into a sit and wait until released without a command, even if we are going out to play (which is soooo exciting ). That is what I got out of doing crate games and I think it is really important and useful. Especially for something like choosing to wait at the door (even if it is open)- if we lived on a busy street and she dashed straight out of the door it could be disasterous. I can also send her to the table or mat, or on a 'down' while I reset weave poles and such; and she will wait patiently to start training again and then spring up ready to go when she hears her release word. I just got the DVD.... hope it wasn't a waste :blink:0.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Impulse control is SOOOOO important. I do love that part of crate games. I trained it a bit differently than she was teaching it, but the same idea. I can actually work Grady, with treats and toys, while Lucia sits in her crate with the door open. Grady doesn't have the same control yet, but he's only 10 months. I'm a HUGE fan of Susan Garrett and use her methods on the agility course religiously. Crate Games is just way too long of a video to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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