Calling "time" on the flank/outrun

[Pippin's person]

I seem to have made a new dog out of an old one (who often had evil on his mind) by using "time" on a flank (or outrun).

 

The situation is thus: Hamish often chases sheep running toward a draw/pressure and becomes deaf and evil. He also seems to like banging them around on the fence once he's engaged in this kind of chasing. I have given him harsh corrections for this, but they are generally not "in the work". I have been setting up situations where he could go bad so that we could help him learn to be good. And he's gotten MUCH better, no question. But....not perfect.

 

So, on Thursday's session, we set him up and he went bad the first time. I corrected him (talking softly and carrying a big stick method--as an aside, it is amazing what a difference walking calmly and determinedly at the dog and giving the correction makes as compared to shrieking like a banshee--but I digress). On the second go, as he started to go bad on the outrun (sheep running toward the draw--outrun of about 50-75 yards), I called out "time" (i have no clue why I did it this time and hadn't ever done it before) and that little so-and-so pulled up visibly, slowed down and started to think! He completed his outrun and work beautifully, coming in deep behind the sheep and bringing them at a nice pace. We set this up again several times with the same result.

 

Today, different field, different sheep--same thing. And besides that, his outruns are generally much deeper and wider; his pace is great; his responses pretty crisp, etc. Yay, I'm delighted.

 

But, I've not really heard people calling out "time" on outruns/flanks before, so is this somehow unorthodox? If it is, do the collective you think it matters in terms of "style" or some other aspect of the work?

[Wendy V]

By calling out "time", you have jolted him out of his running behavior, causing him to think a little, thus slowing him down a bit. It is not unorthodox at all, and I have seen Scott Glen use the technique before, and others, but in slightly different forms. I would not concern yourself with the "style" of it. Use anything that might work for you and the dog.

 

On another note, I might concern myself with the idea of putting a young dog in a situation of failure time and time again in an attempt to fix a problem. How about building upon some sucess? If running sheep elict a poor reaction, then don't send him after running sheep. Wait until your sheep are settled before you send him, and if they are up against a fence, then give him the help he is desparate for. And remove the "evil" out of your language and thoughts. Think of him and yourself as unskilled but learning.

 

Sorry to take liberties, but I know firsthand the pain of your struggles.

[Pippin's person]

No need to worry about liberties....

 

I should clarify about the "setting up" over and over, though--I meant over the course of many months (actually for the last year and half), he was put in the situation on multiple occasions. Hamish wasn't put in the situation over and over in a single session if he kept doing it wrong. Two times "bad" were generally enough for us to quit and move on or shift to something less challenging. Early in the summer, after a particularly unpleasant such experience, he wasn't put in the situation for several weeks and instead we only worked on things that he could do well so as to build his (and my) confidence back up. All of that detail was missing from the original post, of course.

 

I definitely think of both of us as unskilled and learning (though I think if you saw him on some of these occasions, a word like "evil" might come to mind....).

 

You make an excellent point about helping him out and encouraging him. I was just thinking tonight that I would like to turn my attention during our sessions together to giving him encouragement more often--I think I've spent so much focus on learning what it is he should be doing and trying to see it when he isn't, that I forget to let him know, with a little extra encouragement, when he's doing right--particularly when it's something challenging. I've been told this many times, but haven't really given it the focus it deserves.

[Wendy V]

All one can do in training is to offer a response to a certain behavior, and then to evaluate the quality of the corresponding response in the dog. Make your adjustments from there.

 

Lately, I've been thinking much about momentum and how it relates to sheepdog training. Two of my young dogs err on the outrun as they pick up speed. They flaten out and basically become brainless, either banging into the top or busting through entirely. Speed=wrong behavior, slow=thoughfulness=correct behavior. So they must be slowed down as soon as their momentum increases. I accomplish this by scolding them as they first leave my feet, or as soon as the momentum increases and stopping them if the scolding doesn't slow them up. When slowed down, their work improves; they widen out and become softer in their approach at the lift. My training is aimed at refining this momentum. Trust me, I'm making plenty of mistakes in the process, usually erring on the side of too little correction (I'm too busy evaluating the response. Ha!). But it is helpful to me to think about training in terms of momentum. It removes the emotional baggage.

[stockdogranch]

Just a quick thought on the "evil" thing. While these types of responses to particular situations when working can certainly appear as "evil" behaviors (long ago, I referred to one dog as "possessed"), I don't believe the dogs are actually TRYING to be bad or to do the wrong thing; they are merely responding to a situation the only way they know how. So there is something in the situation they can't or don't know how to handle. Often, I think, it's the pressure from the stock that they are uncomfortable with, or they think the stock are really going to get away, or something of that nature. Getting on the dog's case (again, in my opinion) doesn't make it better (although that's certainly the most natural way to respond, as it can be seriously frustrating!). If you have a dog who is diving in and hanging on in a particular situation, say, you can certainly get on the dog's case (however you do it--with a scruff shake, a growl, a tap on the noggin with a whip--whatever are the current fads or tools used for such purposes), and you might get some results when you set up that situation again. But, someday, when you least expect it, and a similar situation arises (that you have not set up) like at a trial, you'll see that old "evil" behavior emerge again. Why? Because you never really removed the cause of the problem; you just worked on the resultant behavior.

 

It's early, and I've not yet been out to turn sheep out--I'm not sure this makes sense,

 

A

[MagRam]

Just a quick thought on the "evil" thing. While these types of responses to particular situations when working can certainly appear as "evil" behaviors (long ago, I referred to one dog as "possessed"), I don't believe the dogs are actually TRYING to be bad or to do the wrong thing; they are merely responding to a situation the only way they know how. So there is something in the situation they can't or don't know how to handle. Often, I think, it's the pressure from the stock that they are uncomfortable with, or they think the stock are really going to get away, or something of that nature. Getting on the dog's case (again, in my opinion) doesn't make it better (although that's certainly the most natural way to respond, as it can be seriously frustrating!). If you have a dog who is diving in and hanging on in a particular situation, say, you can certainly get on the dog's case (however you do it--with a scruff shake, a growl, a tap on the noggin with a whip--whatever are the current fads or tools used for such purposes), and you might get some results when you set up that situation again. But, someday, when you least expect it, and a similar situation arises (that you have not set up) like at a trial, you'll see that old "evil" behavior emerge again. Why? Because you never really removed the cause of the problem; you just worked on the resultant behavior.

 

It's early, and I've not yet been out to turn sheep out--I'm not sure this makes sense,

 

A

 

 

I am reminded of a philosophy and saying from a Jack Knox clinic at Anna's. Paraphrased closely it was "Correct wrong. Let right happen" At a private lesson with Lyle Lad last year she put it as Learning begins when correction ends". It took me a while to think I understand it but I think it boils down to there being two elements to timing a correction instead of just the one we usually think about. The first and the one we all think about is when to apply some unpleasantness (whatever it may be - tone of voice to more threatening behavior - whatever works or is needed for your dog) when the dog does wrong, This is the correction to stop the bad behavior, Then what many of us miss is the immediate release of the pressure as soon as the dog reacts - i.e., bends out on an outrun, checks up on a fetch, or bends away on a slice. If applied correctly the release of pressure let's the dog know it has done something right and it can then "learn" that the new behavior is good.

 

If applied correctly I am coming to believe that both steps are important - the correction worked on the resultant behavior and the release rewards a new and better behavior hopefully giving the dog some confidence it is learning on its own.

 

Just a novice handlers 2 cents FWIW.

[Nancy Bovee]

I am wondering if this kind of situation actually causes or reinforces the slicing. I have a dog who I put through all kinds of wrong and difficult situations (because that's what I had and didn't know any better). As soon as he would leave, (and sometimes before), no matter the distance, the sheep would start to book to the draw.

 

Now that I look at it a little differently, I can see that going wide on the 'come-by' side would only lose the sheep, the shortest path for him is to slice right by 10 o'clock run through at high speed and end out wide around the other side.

 

I've had some luck (haven't used "Time") having him pick the sheep up off a fence where that slice is impossible and it causes him to be careful to get around. Now, I know this has some built in problems and can create them as well. He doesn't really understand that his blazing speed can be used to get around the sheep from wide. (except if the sheep are booking toward that side).

 

We ought to have a whole folder on training mistakes (newbie and pro) because that's where I seem to learn the most!

 

nancy b

[Pippin's person]

Just a quick thought on the "evil" thing. While these types of responses to particular situations when working can certainly appear as "evil" behaviors (long ago, I referred to one dog as "possessed"), I don't believe the dogs are actually TRYING to be bad or to do the wrong thing; they are merely responding to a situation the only way they know how. So there is something in the situation they can't or don't know how to handle.

 

This is a good point, and I'll concede that "evil" is a pretty sloppy way to describe what's happening--I don't really believe that dogs have that kind of moral reasoning capacity.

 

At the same time, I think that their prey drive is serious and part of what can cause them trouble. My sense of what's going on with Hamish is that his prey drive gets kicked in in these instances and overrides his thinking and ability to be working with me. With the prey drive engaged, he's doing what his instinct leads him to do (e.g. as Anna says above and Wendy suggested, he doesn't know a different way to handle it).

[Laurae]

One of Taz's main issues is that he slices at the top. He has patterned this by now, and I believe he thinks it's the correct way to approach the sheep at the top. For a while I thought it was because he spent a long time in the early stages of his training working very broke sheep in a small arena, and these sheep would break back to me as soon as Taz reached the nine o'clock or three o'clock positions. Now, however, I think it may be that he is afraid the sheep will get away if he doesn't reach them as quickly as possible.

 

I've tried to fix this by running toward him and/or the sheep to try to kick him out, too, but this has not been consistently successful—he either didn't really change his trajectory once he began to slice, instead racing toward the sheep faster, or he did kick out but I couldn't ever transition to not slicing when I wasn't running up the field. I also tried to work on this by lying him down before he reached the slicing point, and as my timing improved I could often get him to lie down, but this then often resulted in Taz hesitating at the beginning of his outrun. (This, in turn, made me more reluctant to correct him for slicing, which of course just made the slicing more ingrained.) Faansie Basson helped me to understand that part of the problem was that Taz was not moving off me enough to feel the need to change his instinctive/patterned behavior. So I had to work a bit on establishing a little more presence with him (which wasn't difficult to do, once I discovered how I could change his behavior without resorting to heavy-handed force).

 

I think I was also not seeing the bigger picture. With the help of my trainer, I recently realized that a big part of the problem is that he speeds up at the same time he begins to slice. Thus, instead of running at him (which often just makes him more frantic), I've been working to slow him down so he will begin thinking right at that point that he begins to slice and speed up. I've begun to have some success by doing something similar to what Robin is describing. Every once in a while, I set him up to go the opposite direction of the draw (so he will be more likely to slice). I send him and walk (walk, not run) toward the sheep but just as he begins to speed up/alter his trajectory, I growl a "hey." He is starting to check himself now, which results in a very nice approach and lift. This strategy is not very different from what I've been told to do by top clinicians in the past, but I think the reason it is working now, apart from my improving timing, is that I've established a bit more presence with him—now he actually hears me when I'm not screeching at him.

 

Of course, I don't know if this is truly going to be the fix I've been working toward. Time will tell. And even if it is, I think Taz may always have to be redirected on his outrun. But I don't mind that because as long as I can get him to slow down and think while he's moving, we can progress as a team. Such is the journey for a novice handler with a novice dog

[1sheepdoggal]

With one of my dogs, it was fear and not liking the pressure, that made her zing and slice around the sheep at warp speed. First, we worked to eliminate the fear, then worked on getting her used to the pressure. I use the "Steady" or "time" command, to get her to come around them in a nicer and calmer manner, and it also helped the sheep, as they didnt bolt to the draw when she handled them in a more workman like fashion. Having her slow down also gave her time to relax, and start to engage her brain instead of working from her anxieties. Its made a world of difference.

[stockdogranch]

With one of my dogs, it was fear and not liking the pressure...

 

More often than not, I believe this is the case,

 

A

[Wendy V]

I agree with Anna. I believe it is fear, not prey drive that is behind the misbehavior.

 

But, someday, when you least expect it, and a similar situation arises (that you have not set up) like at a trial, you'll see that old "evil" behavior emerge again. Why? Because you never really removed the cause of the problem; you just worked on the resultant behavior.

 

How does one remove the cause? How does one remove the fear out of the situation?

[stockdogranch]

Back to the round pen, or at least, very close in. The dog needs to learn to be comfortable feeling the pressure of the stock. Close in, calm walking behind, lots of different types of stock (heavy, light, etc.), to feel lots of different pressure, and to get relaxed with it. I like the round pen because there is no way to escape the pressure of the stock--the dog absolutely HAS to deal with it (thanks, Jack!),

 

A

[1sheepdoggal]

Back to the round pen, or at least, very close in. The dog needs to learn to be comfortable feeling the pressure of the stock. Close in, calm walking behind, lots of different types of stock (heavy, light, etc.), to feel lots of different pressure, and to get relaxed with it. I like the round pen because there is no way to escape the pressure of the stock--the dog absolutely HAS to deal with it (thanks, Jack!),

 

A

 

Thats what we did, went back to the round pen, also had her lie down right behind the sheep and learn to relax. It didnt happen over night, and has taken months of work. Now, since we have moved back out on the feild, there is still the problem of her trying to work off contact some times to stay off the sheep and stay in her own comfort zone. Bringing her back in now is what Im working on and she has made tremendous strides. She can now pick sheep up off the fence and not rip into them, she can calmly go around them without zipping by where the pressure is at its highest and then doesnt kick back out, though some times still needs to be reminded to steady up. Trick is to catch her just before she starts to speed up, catch them just as they start to think about speeding up, not as they are doing it if you can get the timing right. Even on the feild, we still go out and do close work in work, and in the corners. I dont know if her fear will ever be completly removed, but in doing what we've done, it sure has helped her learn to manage it much better and she is way more relaxed, confident and calm. Which makes me more relaxed, confident and calm too!

[Pippin's person]

Trick is to catch her just before she starts to speed up, catch them just as they start to think about speeding up, not as they are doing it if you can get the timing right. Even on the feild, we still go out and do close work in work, and in the corners. I dont know if her fear will ever be completly removed, but in doing what we've done, it sure has helped her learn to manage it much better and she is way more relaxed, confident and calm. Which makes me more relaxed, confident and calm too!

 

This is *exactly* the experience I was trying to capture in my original post (stopping the speeding up was what happened when I called "time" and what I hadn't been able to achieve before with "lie down" or anything else). What do you do to stop the speeding up?

 

We also did the same kind of close-in work back in the round pen, in tiny packed pens, Hamish lying between me and the fence with the sheep just on the other side, learning to relax (both of us), lying down at an open gate while the sheep went somewhere else. It was great--but he would still chase the sheep if they were running toward the draw in an open field. Not always and increasingly less, but still on occasion.

 

Hamish's problem seems to me more tied to fear of losing the sheep than close in pressure (or at least that's where he goes bad)

 

Is that just a different version of the same thing as close-in pressure? (small aside--what I called prey drive and "evil" is what I perceive to kick in AFTER he's run the sheep down and is banging them around on the fence or gate--but maybe that's actually fear, too--don't know, but find it most unpleasant).

 

What do you do to take away that particular fear if the dog is generally relaxed with close-in work? I guess the real question is what are the intermediate stages you use for helping the dog get more relaxed?

[Wendy V]

I'd like to point out that while you are doing the close up work, you can still work on more advanced skills like flank commands, whitsle commands, off-balance stops, off-balance flanks, inside flanks, little bits of driving, as well as fence work. I also like to practice the dog lying still at balance and staying there for a bit. If the sheep are not moving when they are balanced between us, then there is no reason for the dog to make a corresponding move. I guess it is teaching a dog patience.

[juliepoudrier]

This is *exactly* the experience I was trying to capture in my original post (stopping the speeding up was what happened when I called "time" and what I hadn't been able to achieve before with "lie down" or anything else). What do you do to stop the speeding up?

 

Robin,

We were working in close in the round pen at first, so I was right there to step in and put some pressure on her if need be. That said, one of Chris' problems was that she had had too much pressure put on her for her fear behaviors (and the ripping into sheep that stemmed from that), so I had to first just get her calmer and her brain more engaged in general. I also used well-broke sheep that never really offered to run--I could put these sheep up against the fence and ask Chris through between them and the fence and they wouldn't bolt off the fence, so I was able to set up the necessary tight situations so I could work on calming her through them. The fact that we were new to each other and so had no history I think helped a lot in her case because no matter what she did (in the way of doing wrong things) I never got upset. All corrections were calm and matter-of-fact and we would then immediately get right back on with the work. So basically the first few times I worked her I watched her to see what was triggering her and then we worked on simply calming her and getting her to engage her brain. So, for example, as I would flank her around between the sheep and the fence I would say "Hey" or "time" or something similar (in a "non-accusatory" tone) at the second just before she'd want to speed up, and it would be just enough to disengage the "Ohmygod, ohmygod, ohmygod" fear response and get her to re-engage her brain. That worked to slow her approach to the point where the sheep and the fence met. When she engaged her brain and became more thoughtful she would go between the sheep and fence without trying to grab one and at the point she was on balance (which would be directly behind the sheep and up against the fence--I made sure I was positioned so that this was the correct balance point) I would ask her to lie down. If she continued to try to speed through, I was close enough to step into her face and stop her with body pressure. And then we'd repeat. In between brief sessions of this work, I'd let her flank around, fetch sheep to me, other simple stuff as a reward and to help relax her, and then I'd move the sheep back up against the fence and do the same exercises again. Darci is right, it took months, but training is about patience, and all that close in work paid off with a dog that Darci now trusts to work even in tight spaces without tearing sheep up.

 

We also did the same kind of close-in work back in the round pen, in tiny packed pens, Hamish lying between me and the fence with the sheep just on the other side, learning to relax (both of us), lying down at an open gate while the sheep went somewhere else. It was great--but he would still chase the sheep if they were running toward the draw in an open field. Not always and increasingly less, but still on occasion.

 

It never hurts to go back and reinforce the lessons of the small areas. I will even work my open dogs in the round pen on occasion just because.

 

Hamish's problem seems to me more tied to fear of losing the sheep than close in pressure (or at least that's where he goes bad)

 

I wonder if this isn't because his fear has been justified (over and over again)?

 

What do you do to take away that particular fear if the dog is generally relaxed with close-in work? I guess the real question is what are the intermediate stages you use for helping the dog get more relaxed?

 

If he's losing his sheep repeatedly because of whatever training situation you're dealing with, then I think I'd be looking to set up situations where the sheep can't and don't run. If he's not constantly having to deal with sheep that are running to some sort of heavy draw then he might just manage to become calmer in his work.

 

ETA:

I also like to practice the dog lying still at balance and staying there for a bit. If the sheep are not moving when they are balanced between us, then there is no reason for the dog to make a corresponding move. I guess it is teaching a dog patience.

 

This is what I was doing with Chris too. She figured out she could lie down between the sheep and the fence and nothing bad happened.

 

J.

[Pippin's person]

Thanks Julie (and others) for explaining. I really benefit from reading about the different things that folks do with seemingly similar problems.

 

One of the things that prompted me to write in the first place was how successful Hamish had been on two different occasions with working calmly in situations that in the past had resulted in things going very bad. Today we had another session that was similarly successful on a completely new field with semi-broke sheep. He was really great--calm, relaxed, listening, staying deep. He really is like a different dog. It feels like the proverbial "two steps forward" part of the dance.....

[1sheepdoggal]

I think that until I learned to handle myself better with my dog, that she and I did a lot of dancing too!

Julie hit the nail on the head, time and patience. I am always complaining that things arent happening quick enough, and it did, (I did the math) took us near about 6 months to get Chris trustworthy and thinking. (it took me that long to trust her again too, she had really done a job on a couple of my sheep) Learning to have more patience has taken me just about that long too.

[hsnrs]

I was thinking maybe my Aussie was fearful of the sheep and that is why he was gripping. We got good advice from Vergil and intend to implement it soon. We are having the same issues with our girls too at the ASCA trial this weekend. They were so fast splitting the sheep and not listening. Need to get a firm handle on these issues soon or we won't be ready for the trials in February. Very interesting topic. I love the idea of the training mistakes too. Boy can we relate. N

[Albion Urdank]

All one can do in training is to offer a response to a certain behavior, and then to evaluate the quality of the corresponding response in the dog. Make your adjustments from there.

 

Lately, I've been thinking much about momentum and how it relates to sheepdog training. Two of my young dogs err on the outrun as they pick up speed. They flaten out and basically become brainless, either banging into the top or busting through entirely. Speed=wrong behavior, slow=thoughfulness=correct behavior. So they must be slowed down as soon as their momentum increases. I accomplish this by scolding them as they first leave my feet, or as soon as the momentum increases and stopping them if the scolding doesn't slow them up. When slowed down, their work improves; they widen out and become softer in their approach at the lift. My training is aimed at refining this momentum. Trust me, I'm making plenty of mistakes in the process, usually erring on the side of too little correction (I'm too busy evaluating the response. Ha!). But it is helpful to me to think about training in terms of momentum. It removes the emotional baggage.

cast

 

I don't slow my dogs down when they'r casting. The faster the better in my view, because on the outrun it's best for them to get to sheep as quickly as possible in a trial setting, where time is always a factor. I simply make sure that they widen out as they cast. If they haven't yet learned to take an elongated flank whistle on the fly, I stop them with a "stand" (no lie downs), let them think and settle for a brief moment, then give an elongated flank command on whistle or a "keep out" voice command. I might do this again as they approach the top if I think they're not deep enough. But if the sheep are running toward an exhaust pen, I don't let the dog try to catch them. I stop the dog and let the sheep get to the pen. I wouldn't set up a situation like that especially for a young dog. The reason is that the dog otherwise develops the habit of anticipating sheep will break toward a pen in a trial situation when it feels pen pressure in particular, and will give ground and try to beat the sheep to the pen before they break for it first. The dog needs instead to hold the line against this pressure. The problem though is that sometimes the dog will lose the sheep to pen pressure, despite its efforts to hold the line, and won't necessarily cover when that happens because it has been taught to let them go in that situation. Here the handler has to be vigilant and flank the dog quickly to make sure it does indeed cover. It's a trade-off, but I'd rather the dog didn't give ground by anticipating what the sheep would do before they do it in that particular situation.

[stockdogranch]

I was thinking maybe my Aussie was fearful of the sheep and that is why he was gripping.

 

Hi, Narita. While I am certainly by no means an expert on Aussies, I have worked quite a few of them over the years. I find that with some Aussies (or some lines of Aussies), this is their "preferred" way of working--go in, grab a heel or whatever, then kind of dash back out of the way. Or go in and split them intentionally, so the dog can then gather them back again (kind of like a game for them). Not saying anything against Aussies, but many have been bred to be "vesatile," meaning they are usually both ASCA and AKC registered. This means that they have been bred to fit a "breed standard," and as such, some of the true working ability has been lost due to breeding for other things. Even if not dual registered, ASCA still has its own breed standard. There are certainly some who are still bred strictly for working ability, but they are not as common as the "versatile" bred ones. So, the result is that many Aussies now have this working style that you describe, what I call "shark attacking"--that diving in and grabbing kind of behavior. What I believe is that it's a lot of prey drive still there, but not the work ethic to go along with it. Sorry I have no great ideas on how to work with this issue; I just know what I've observed over the years. BCs I generally know how to work with, although I see some of this same behavior in BCs who are "marginally bred."

 

A

 

ETA I agree with Albion that I never slow a dog down on a flank, but here we are talking about a specific issue, where a slow down command might be helpful in allowing the dog to engage its brain.

[Pippin's person]

I wonder if this isn't because his fear has been justified (over and over again)?

If he's losing his sheep repeatedly because of whatever training situation you're dealing with, then I think I'd be looking to set up situations where the sheep can't and don't run. If he's not constantly having to deal with sheep that are running to some sort of heavy draw then he might just manage to become calmer in his work.

 

I've been thinking about this since last night and I think what has been so heartening for me during the last few training sessions is that by being able to slow himself down, he's been able to gather the running sheep by staying calm, thinking and getting behind them rather than chasing them. Thus, where I think it's entirely likely that his fear was justified (at least in his mind), he's now had multiple opportunities to feel what it feels like to be right--where the sheep ran but *didn't get away*. And, I've had the opportunity to figure out something I can do to actually help him if he gets in a situation that could become trouble--both of these components had been missing.

 

During our training yesterday, I didn't have to give him any time commands on his flanks/outruns--he was thoughtful and controlled, even in the face of sheep running away from him toward a draw (not a heavy one, but still) and in the face of sheep that didn't want to stay together. It was a pretty small field, so the sheep couldn't run all that far anyway and I was easily in position to stop anything that was starting to deteriorate. Still, it was another positive experience for him where he worked pretty well.

 

There was much larger field with far less dog-broke sheep available but I decided against giving that one a whirl

[Marilyn T]

Many 'young' dogs (or inexperienced dogs with inexperienced handlers) are frantic at what they percieve as escaping sheep. They have been sent into situations to 'cover' the sheep, and lost or gotten over their heads. The scenario then gets muddled usually with yelling, and corrections on a young dog who knows no other way to handle a panic situation. We, as trainers, need to remove the panic.

 

One thing I always do with a young dog is to move sheep through a gate, back and forth. I am in the gateway, (behind a fence in order to not get trampled initially) and stop the young dog from racing after the 'escaping' sheep. Let them settle in the new field, then send the dog around them to calmly bring them back through the gate. Within usually a couple of minutes, the dog relaxes and understands that the sheep are not going to get away,and by moving calmly, everything will be okay. This will also be of benefit when the dog needs to drive sheep towards an escape route. They will learn to be calm about it and hopefully be able to handle the sheep in those situations too. I routinely drive sheep in all four directions, once the dog advances, to teach them to handle all sorts of field pressures driving as well.

 

Using any tool at your disposal (time on the outrun) at this stage to calm down the initial contact with sheep will be to your ultimate benifit. Now that he has some experience being 'good' you can probably start sending him off with a gentle 'now... take your time' reminder before you say (also quietly) away to me or come by on an outrun. No loss of points that way!