Brenna14 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Hey everyone, I wanted to say HI. I recently found these boards and have been reading through the threads and thought I'd introduce myself. I recently brought two male BC puppies into my family and am absolutely smitten. I was always raised with herding dogs (my parents bred Bearded Collies) but have never raised a puppy 100% on my own. My boyfriend and I own a 3000sq ft house (they only have access to our family room on a regular basis though) on 1.5 acres and we crate them while we are at work and to sleep at night. We are gone most of the day for work, but my boyfriend's mother comes over to take them out for exercise and food/water mid-day. We had been looking for border collies for a while, then had a difficult experience with a rescue shelter (they wouldn't even call us back or be polite at ALL when we did get in touch with them ) with some aussie mix pups, then found our two little loves on a Mennonite farm in Northern PA. Both parents are working dogs herding sheep and were very friendly and gorgeous. Royce (B&W) and Enzo (tri-colored) were a day shy of 10 weeks when we took them home and they are a little over 12 weeks now. They are coming along nicely with housebreaking, although Enzo doesn't always hold it all night (we suspect him because Royce will pee forever when we first take them out in the morning, and Enzo just wants to eat grass and go inside for breakfast). They both understand "sit" and "crate" and I'm reading as much as I can and looking into puppy obedience training in our area. I guess I was hoping to hear about some positive experiences people have had raising two puppies at once (I'm really hoping some people have them!! ). Before deciding to get two, we had done research on raising puppies, but only AFTER we took both babies home, did I research raising TWO puppies (duh) and found only horror stories galore (and yes we had planned on getting two - I'm not sure how I had such a major oversight as I'm normally very detailed). Now, I'm not planning on giving up or giving one away like many of the testimonials say I should, so any positive experiences, or things that may not have/have not worked for you please. I'm so concerned I'm going to permanently damage the pups by not being a good enough "pack leader" or at training or keeping them occupied and busy enough. I'm also really concerned that since there's two of them, they won't bond as well to us humans, so I'm trying to make sure we play with them separately each night and take them out to go to the bathroom separately on a regular basis as well. Lots of trainers online say to just give up because they will have aggression problems, separation issues, and will never truly be trustworthy, but I guess I'm going to take a chance that I can make it work with a lot of hard work. We also plan to both go to obedience training with the puppies and probably take turns with them in the classes so they learn to work with both of us (and maybe have his mother come too so she can see the types of things the trainers are teaching US). It's possible we would even have them in separate classes so they don't get distracted by each other if that's an issue. I've also been looking into flyball and agility work to keep them busy so they have a "job" to do. Thanks - I hope to hear some great suggestions from people on these boards. Everyone seems to have such insight and knowledge about dogs that I only hope to have someday! I realize I'm up for a big challenge but I'm ready to do anything to make sure we have well-adjusted, happy dogs. Thanks everyone! Brenna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenna14 Posted August 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 I guess I should also add - if anyone has any suggestions for raising a SINGLE puppy, that would be appreciated as well Thanks! Brenna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Before deciding to get two, we had done research on raising puppies, but only AFTER we took both babies home, did I research raising TWO puppies (duh) and found only horror stories galore Boy, you're in for trial by fire! I have never raised two (one nearly killed me!) but others on this forum have done AND I believe have (or are) lived/living to tell the tale. It sounds like you're doing the right things by: 1. Being dedicated to keeping and working with the two little guys (they're cute BTW) 2. Planning to train and socialize them separately so that they don't just develop a brother dynamic. 3. Planning to re-inforce your bond with them by doing agility, etc. with them individually. I would add that you should definitely neuter (that goes without saying ) and pay attention to their differing personalities so as not to expect the same from both of them. Good luck with them and keep those photos coming. OH and Welcome! Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenna14 Posted August 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Boy, you're in for trial by fire! I have never raised two (one nearly killed me!) but others on this forum have done AND I believe have (or are) lived/living to tell the tale. It sounds like you're doing the right things by: 1. Being dedicated to keeping and working with the two little guys (they're cute BTW) 2. Planning to train and socialize them separately so that they don't just develop a brother dynamic. 3. Planning to re-inforce your bond with them by doing agility, etc. with them individually. I would add that you should definitely neuter (that goes without saying ) and pay attention to their differing personalities so as not to expect the same from both of them. Good luck with them and keep those photos coming. OH and Welcome! Ailsa Oh I intend to neuter them. They actually don't have papers, which is OK with me since I never intended to use them for breeding. We want to wait until they're a little older just because it seems the verdict is still out on whether it can affect their growth, etc if you do it too early. Thanks!! And I do need to upload some new pics soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Welcome! Boy those are cute boys! I've only done one pup at a time and I now know that even at a young age, these dogs need something to do! Interactive toys are fantastic! And for teething, old dish rags (clean) soaked then frozen work wonders! As for raising two, like Ailsa said, I am sure there are a few folks on here that have and do. I think the largest problem most people run into (with any breed) is that they too are naive and think that just because they are human or supposed to be the "alfa" the dogs should have a better bond with them than with their own species. Soooo, if you spend time with each dog on an individual basis and are well aware that they are likely to have a strong bond you should be able to work through it. If you get them used to spending time apart at an early age, they will be less likely to have major separation issues. But I am sure someone else who's done it has better knowledge. Good luck julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClickMeBC Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Welcome! Cute little pups! Love the split faced markings, and the tri color thing going on there is lovely. You are certainly in for a ride - we raised our two Italian Greyound pups together(dived into it rather ignorantly), and though we made it through and they're both great little agility dogs, it was tricky. The difference between one pup and two is incredible - their having each other will cause you to form relationships with them that would have been completely and utterly different had you chosen only one. Whether your relationship with each is as individual and just as strong as it would have been with just one pup depends on you and your boyfriend alone, in how you raise them...what foundations and solid boundaries are layed, the level of consistency, and how much patience and dedication you're able to muster from day to day. I've raised two pups at a time, but never two Border collies. I'm not of the opinion that it will undeniably be any harder or easier - it all depends on you. I wish you the best of luck - you could not have chosen a better place to come for advice or information - and have fun with your boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyDogs Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Welcome to the Boards! What cuties! I've raised 2 pups together - Oscar & Jill, now 11 years old - different breeds and a two months apart in age, but here's what I found: 1) What one puppy does "bad", the other one will follow and be "bad" too 2) Each bonded to me just fine. Our relationship is different than if there had been only one, but that would be the case whether I brought home two puppies or if second dog joined the household later. Different but good! 3) The teenage months of their puppyhood almost drove me nuts 4) The strengths of one can help the weaknesses of the other. Oscar was way more social and outgoing and helped timid, shy Jill become more "socially appropriate". 5) They have a special relationship even today that is warming to see. I think you're on the right track working & playing with them separately as well as together. One problem I've seen is where pups have never been separated - that's where separation anxiety develops as one or both become overly dependent on the other. Each pup needs to develop independence and confidence separate from their littermate. I highly recommend taking them to separate classes. Have fun and enjoy the ride (and remember it gets better the older they get ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizmo Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Welcome to the Boards! What cuties! I've raised 2 pups together - Oscar & Jill, now 11 years old - different breeds and a two months apart in age, but here's what I found: 1) What one puppy does "bad", the other one will follow and be "bad" too 2) Each bonded to me just fine. Our relationship is different than if there had been only one, but that would be the case whether I brought home two puppies or if second dog joined the household later. Different but good! 3) The teenage months of their puppyhood almost drove me nuts 4) The strengths of one can help the weaknesses of the other. Oscar was way more social and outgoing and helped timid, shy Jill become more "socially appropriate". 5) They have a special relationship even today that is warming to see. I think you're on the right track working & playing with them separately as well as together. One problem I've seen is where pups have never been separated - that's where separation anxiety develops as one or both become overly dependent on the other. Each pup needs to develop independence and confidence separate from their littermate. I highly recommend taking them to separate classes. Have fun and enjoy the ride (and remember it gets better the older they get ). I agree with this whole post. We have two pups right now, different breeds, and one month apart. Everything you've listed, I'm found true. Especially #4. Good luck! There will be times when you say to yourself "Why in the world did I do this" But I'm sure with training, love, and exercise you won't have many of these moments Yes, pictures are a must! Two cuties! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 We have done two BC pups at once. I found no shortage of people to tell me horror stories, feel sorry for me or think I am crazy. The fact is other than being on top of two dogs at once there is no difference with one or two. Sure they get into everything and BC pups are just about the best at it. We found no bonding issues at all but what we did find is that as they grew they each developed their own personality and with that came their own likes and dislikes and needs. They had their own games and of course they each required attention in their own way. Keep a close eye on how they develop and be certain that you are aware of the differences and treat them as such. Both dogs were trained for herding but they are each a very different dog. They are still together and in a working environment. I would do it again anytime. Some advise, allow them their spirit, allow them to be what they are, do not try to break their spirit, do not try to turn them into one dog. Take advantage of what they can and want to do and enjoy it. When all is said and done, it is more fun than you can possibly imagine now. Welcome, good luck, keep us posted. There are lots of people on this board that can help you through almost anything. Thanks for being a great owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 There has been a lot of good info shared already, so I just have one to add: *please* crate them separately (at night and when you're out of the house). A friend of mine raised two mixed pups together and crated them together "so they had company" while she was out of the house and overnight. As they aged, it became harder and harder to separate them and when one ended up at the vets' the other flipped out - they had never been separated from each other. Separate crates will give them each their own space and will help them learn to handle things on their own. If it were me, I'd consider crating them in separate rooms for at least part of their crate time, specifically to prepare them for any times they must be apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 I think that if you have a commitment to making it work with your puppies, you (and they) will be fine. Sure, if you had come here before you got them asking for advice, most people would have advised against getting two littermates. But now that they're home, you can make it work. From what you're doing so far, I'd say you're on the right path. You're training them, crating them, giving them exercise. You're giving them individual time and attention. You have plans for puppy classes, which I would have recommended, and yes, I think separate classes, if you can do it is a good idea. The only thing I'm not sure I've seen you mention is socializing them, so make sure they do get out and meet people of all ages, sizes. Expose them to different sights and sounds away from your home and when you can, friendly dogs who will only interact with them appropriately. Puppy class will be a good socialization experience. And, as a lover of agility and flyball, I recommend those as well. Border collies excel at both. I have a friend who raised border collie littermates, a boy and a girl. They're about 2 years old now, and though it was twice as much work, she and her husband took the time and effort required, and they are both very nice dogs now. No aggression or any other horror stories you hear. They're very bonded to their humans and super friendly to everyone else, too. They're training in flyball and agility and she plans to try them out on sheep soon, too. Oh, and I almost forgot, your puppies are adorable! I'd love to see more pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthBelle Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Cute pups! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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