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When to switch from Puppy to Adult food?


Guest maya's mom
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Guest maya's mom

I have a 7 month old BC, who has been eating California Natural's puppy formula since we got her at 8 weeks. I have cut her feeding down to twice a day, and feed her the amount that the label instructs for her weight. A lot of days, she is only eating one of her meals. She does get supplemented my Kong filled treats of apples and carrots once or twice a day, and usually chews on a bully stick, dried sweet potato or dental bone once a day. Is there a standard when a BC should begin eating adult formula food? I have heard so many different things, and wanted to get the opinion of actual BC owners! Any opinion would be appreciated. Thanks!

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You can do a search on this topic but I would venture to guess that most people on these boards switch to a premium quality adult (or all life stages) food at about three months of age.

 

As for feeding amounts, many feed bags advise feeding too much. I don't think that's the case with California Naturals but, as the puppy food is very high in nutrition, your youngster may be "telling you" that she's getting plenty of nutrition with less than the recommended amount at this stage of her life.

 

Additionally, if she is like my one dog (who is a picky eater), she may tend to eat less when the weather becomes hotter and muggier. Since she is also getting other treats and such, that may also be another reason why she isn't eating as much of her food.

 

Switching to a "less rich" food at this age can help the pup to grow a bit more slowly but also more healthfully, as too fast a growth rate is not healthy (even though we all like to say how tall or how big our pup is at whatever age!).

 

I am sure others who can give better advice will add their posts. Best wishes!

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Guest maya's mom

Thanks! Maybe I should also mention that at 7 months, she is currently 30 pounds, but not sure of her height. Although to my husband and I, she seems small. This is our 1st BC, so I wasn't sure what there standard growth should be. How fast, how big, etc. For a while, she was gaining about 4-6 pounds a month I think, but the last month, she has only put on a couple of pounds.

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I think that most vets (and certainly most dog food brands) will advise that but I don't believe most vets get much education in dog nutrition and dog food manufacturers are out to sell dog food. The one vet I am familiar with who knows a lot about dog nutrition, is in favor of going to a premium quality adult or all-life-stages dog food at about 3 months or so.

 

Maya's Mom - You might want to search on this subject as it has been covered well in a number of recent topics, and she will be able to get a number of other folks' opinions, that might help her make a decision.

 

As for growth, it does tend to be quite sporadic. That's why your pup will gain rapidly at certain ages, and look really weird at times - sometimes long and leggy and other times rather short legged and long-bodied. Different parts of the body show differing growth rates and at differing ages.

 

Non conformation-bred (non-show-bred) Border Collies tend to come in a great variety of shapes, sizes, ear set, coat lengths and thickness, and color patterns, as they have not been bred for appearance but rather for function. There are folks on these boards who have had purebred (generally working-bred) Border Collies that ranged in weight from as little as about 20# to as much as 55# or so, and in height from 18" or less to 24" or more. Coat included, some appear very blocky and others are very rangy (but under the coat, you will tend to see them generally quite lean and lanky, unless they are overweight).

 

Maya sounds pretty "average" for her age, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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Guest maya's mom

Sue R---Thanks so much! I will search the boards and see what's out there, but I think I will begin the switch over now. Have about 1/4 of a 30lb bag of food left, so I will start adding in the adult brand to that and see how she does. I am assuming since I will keep her on a California Natural brand, that she should do OK. Thanks again!

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I start pups out on a good adult premium diet, and dont use puppy food at all. If your using Cal Nat you can make the switch from puppy to adult without mixing and it wont cause any problems.

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It was recommneded to me (by the owner of a premium dog/cat food company) to just feed Jonah a single bag (35 lbs) and when I reorder just get the adult.

 

I did order a second bag of puppy because it seemed he went though the first bag quickly. There is about 1/2 left so I'll be doing as you soon. Mixing it in with the Adult. Actually, my vet suggested that at our last visit (2 weeks ago)

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When I fed dry food I switched to adult food around the three month mark, if not sooner. I also switch to two meals a day around that time and by six months have them on one meal per day. My youngest girl weaned herself to one meal per day around four months old. I figured if she was refusing to eat breakfast I wasn't going to worry about it as long as she ate a decent dinner.

 

Now that I feed raw, my pup gets the same food as my adult dogs from day one. I may choose slightly smaller, easier to chew pieces, and they get more food per pound of body weight, but it's the same food.

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Puppy food isn't necessarily good for puppies. Puppies can get OCD (Osteochondrosis Dissecans) which is painful and expensive to fix.

 

One of my teachers use to bring her Golden puppy in for the learning disabled children to read to. The young dog was limping and I asked the teacher what she was feeding it. Of coarse, she was feeding puppy food as that is what her breeder had recommended. I told her about OCD and how she should really switch the dog to adult food. She didn't listen. I saw her about a half year later at which time she informed me that the dog had been diagnosed with OCD and it cost her two thousand dollars a leg to correct the damaged done and the dog was only diagnosed after going to three or four different vets. I forgot what it had cost her all together but it wasn't pretty by any means.

 

I only put my puppies on canned puppy food till they are old enough to eat adult dog food. As a breeder, I would never recommend feeding puppy food. The faster you switch, the better!

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My breeder recommends switching them on to adult food at 12 weeks but no later then 6 months. I opted for the 12 week approach and moved her onto eagle pack holistic chicken (which is recommended for pups as well as adults). Only problem I am having is she is being really fussy and hardly eating anything. She is presently (or was last Fri 4.7 kg). She is conformation bred but the breeder thinks she will be on the small side. At 11 weeks she was 2.4kg at 13 weeks 4.7 kg. My concern is getting her to eat. I have been trying to get her to eat dry (about 2 cups total a day) but my older girl ends up getting to it as the little one isn't interested. She will eat maybe about half and then leave it. I gave her a couple of chicken necks this morning instead and a chicken wing and I know she ate the 2 necks but the the wing was stashed somewhere as she was back inside pretty quickly. I am worried she isn't getting enough to eat.

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Ness BC - How old is your youngster now? If she is fairly young, one full cup at a meal (two meals a day) seems like a lot for one sitting for a pup. Have you considered feeding her 3 or 4 times daily, with maybe half a cup per feeding max?

 

I understand a fussy eater. We tried several brands before Bute would eat reasonably consistently. Even now, with the brand that both agreed with his system best and that he would consume best, he has his good eating days and his not-so-good eating days. Suffice it to say that he tends to be on the lean and lanky side, but full of energy and with good stamina.

 

You might try a different brand (the Eagle Pack Holistic that you feed is the same brand that my Bute eats best - he won't even consider the Canidae that I feed the other two) that might appeal to her more; you might just offer her the Eagle Pack, take up what she doesn't eat in five or ten minutes, and not feed her again until the next meal; or top-dress her food with something that perks up her interest in eating (like broth, cooked ground meat, cottage cheese).

 

Maybe feed her in her crate (if you use one) or in a location where the other dog can not get to her food. Take up whatever option you give her that she doesn't consume in 5-10 minutes and let her do without until the next meal.

 

Best wishes!

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Youngster is 14 weeks on Friday. I am trying to keep the number of meals down as my older BC goes absolutely spare if she isn't fed at the same time. Yeah I know I shouldn't use that as a reason but after 8 years of being an only dog she is just tolerating the new addition so I do try and give them both something at the same time. My 8 year old gets breakfast and dinner plus training treats so I was trying to reduce Kenzie to the same (although of course bigger meals) and I'll leave her with things like a chicken neck/wing if I take Ness out and leave her home.

 

I do feed them in separate rooms and close doors etc but of course stupid parents just let Ness out after Kenzie has walked away from her food and allow Ness to eat it. I usually try and pick it up but that had little success as Ness knocked it off the table.

 

I had it suggested to me that I only feed her dry with no extras as I was mixing mince with the dry and she would eat the mince and leave the dry. However I started doing this and mum was getting stuck into me cos I had created a fussy eater and I should give her mince as she eats that. In terms of super premium brand foods there isn't a lot available in Oz so I would prefer to stick with eagle pack.

 

I guess this is just one of the issues I am having and its bugging me.

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Youngster is 14 weeks on Friday. I am trying to keep the number of meals down as my older BC goes absolutely spare if she isn't fed at the same time. Yeah I know I shouldn't use that as a reason but after 8 years of being an only dog she is just tolerating the new addition so I do try and give them both something at the same time. My 8 year old gets breakfast and dinner plus training treats so I was trying to reduce Kenzie to the same (although of course bigger meals) and I'll leave her with things like a chicken neck/wing if I take Ness out and leave her home.

 

So, instead of reducing Kenzie's meals to two a day, how about breaking up Ness's meals into three or four so that Kenzie can have more frequent, smaller meals?

 

I do feed them in separate rooms and close doors etc but of course stupid parents just let Ness out after Kenzie has walked away from her food and allow Ness to eat it. I usually try and pick it up but that had little success as Ness knocked it off the table.

 

Being the mother of four (now adult) children, I am not too sympathetic to the "stupid parents" remark but how about if you supervise Kenzie until Ness is done eating so that this can't happen again? Sit there and read a good book or something. If Kenzie is done before Ness, how about some training time with her (and, since youngsters are often ready to go out and do their potty thing right after eating, you could take her out for that).

 

I had it suggested to me that I only feed her dry with no extras as I was mixing mince with the dry and she would eat the mince and leave the dry. However I started doing this and mum was getting stuck into me cos I had created a fussy eater and I should give her mince as she eats that. In terms of super premium brand foods there isn't a lot available in Oz so I would prefer to stick with eagle pack. I guess this is just one of the issues I am having and its bugging me.

 

I understand what you are saying about creating a fussy eater. Eagle Pack is good dog food, especially the Holistic, so I wouldn't worry about that. When Bute went through a stage where I was not getting him to eat sufficiently, I added some cooked ground beef (mince) to his food for some days until he began to get really eager about mealtime. Then, over a period of days, I very gradually reduced the ground beef and he did continue eating the kibble reasonably.

 

I think one problem we face with pups is the desire to see them eat lots, and I think we often try to push on them more food than they really want or need, and that can backfire on us if the pup begins to "turn off" from eating. Maybe try feeding smaller, more frequent meals; fewer "snacks" (like the chicken parts) or substitute them for part of the daily ration; and don't fuss if she misses a meal. Usually, at some point, the pup will get hungry and begin to eat.

 

Keep us posted. By the way, I see the phrase "just one of the issues" you are having - are you having more problems with Kenzie that you might need help with?

 

Edited to get the dogs' names correct, I think.

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Sorry about the "stupid parents" comment but my parents have got to me at the moment since they were suppose to supervise her last night while I went out for a couple of hours with Ness to obedience (Kenzie can't come till next week) and I came home to cords in my room that had been chewed, parents in bed supposedly supervising and again this morning I left her shut outside so I could take Ness for a longer walk without having to worry about Kenzie and came home to find that mum had only left her out for 15 minutes and they had been supposedly supervising her for 45 min - not sure since mum was in bed and my brother was in bed too. Not to mention the comments I am getting about my method of house training not working cos Kenzie weed in there room just about 3 minutes after I walked in the door last night. No she doesn't have accidents but its because I am making sure she is taken out to go and not left running around the house if she hasn't been taken outside in the last hour.

 

Just to clarify Kenzie is the pup and Ness is my adult BC but yep I get what your saying. Problem is Ness is a very easy keeper food wise and she has packed it on quite considerably since the pup has come - ANOTHER sore point since my parents will feed her bits and pieces all the time despite me saying she doesn't need to clean out XYZ or eat whatever. So Ness is hardly getting anything anyway so its even harder to break it into 3-4 meals.

 

I am having lots of problems - Kenzie is ruling my every waking moment and Ness and her aren't getting along so great. Ness has been really down in the dumps since Kenzie came - now been nearly 5 weeks. I can't get any structure into a day because I am constantly having to see what Kenzie is doing. I can't leave her home to go into the office to work (I am in the final year of my PhD) as I can't trust my mum will do the right thing and I don't want to come home to cables destroyed etc. Lucky I am able to work from home as its a mainly research based PhD but of course not being able to get much done with Kenzie running around like a lunatic and destroying everything. I just can't get into a rhythm with the two of them that works and its leaving me at my wits end and seriously wondering if I made the right decision.

 

For what its worth I have wanted another dog for ages as I do agility and obedience with Ness but mum wasn't to keen on the idea. Then she said I could get one.

 

Ok thats probably way more information then you wanted as to what the issues were :rolleyes:.

 

Ness is our first dog and I don't remember her being as difficult but I guess we didn't have another one to fit in around.

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Gotcha. PhD, puppy, unhappy adult dog, a perhaps loving but less-than-helpful support system at home. I can understand why you are feeling stressed.

 

I am having lots of problems - Kenzie is ruling my every waking moment and Ness and her aren't getting along so great. Ness has been really down in the dumps since Kenzie came - now been nearly 5 weeks. I can't get any structure into a day because I am constantly having to see what Kenzie is doing. I can't leave her home to go into the office to work (I am in the final year of my PhD) as I can't trust my mum will do the right thing and I don't want to come home to cables destroyed etc. Lucky I am able to work from home as its a mainly research based PhD but of course not being able to get much done with Kenzie running around like a lunatic and destroying everything. I just can't get into a rhythm with the two of them that works and its leaving me at my wits end and seriously wondering if I made the right decision.

 

I can see where youare wondering if you did the right thing in getting a pup at this time in your life, especially as you are still at home and have to live with others. But, short of rehoming Kenzie (got it right, I hope), you'll need to manage things to work for you and the dogs and the family.

 

As for Ness not "enjoying" Kenzie being part of the family - I don't think that is so unusual for an adult dog when a pup is introduced, at least not in my experience. Sometimes, they can become the best of friends when the little usurper grows up a bit and can be a companion and playmate and not just a constant irritation. I'm glad you are keeping active doing things with Ness alone - she probably needs that right now.

 

I am going to say what many people here would suggest - crate train your pup (and Ness, too) if you haven't already. That would accomplish a number of things:

 

You could feed separately and neither dog would get into the other's food. Ness might hate me for this suggestion. It might also help in getting Ness away from the source of too many treats during parts of the day.

 

You would have some hours of uninterrupted work time while Kenzie is confined to sleep, chew on appropriate items (stuffed Kongs, safe bones, good chew toys). Set up a somewhat flexible schedule that will work for you and the dogs - play and train, potty, eat, potty, crate for chewing and naps, in whatever order works for you, repeat. Border Collies do thrive on routine and, as you have noted, you haven't yet gotten into a "rhythm" yet that works for you. Crate training could help with that.

 

This would help improve the issue with "helpers" who aren't helping the way you feel you need to be helped - as long as they would respect your wishes with regards to utilizing the crates (and you could put them in your room possibly, or in another quiet location).

 

It's too bad that you are finding out now that this was not the best timing for getting a pup but the management is all in your hands to try and make it work. The crate training would be a big help, in my opinion. It would be part of a plan that would structure your dog management as if there was no one else in the household - in other words, set things up and manage as if you were on your own. People who get pups do it all the time, and that way you wouldn't be relying on someone who isn't going to or able to follow through with what they said they would do.

 

And, from the point of view of (again) an old mother, try and remember all the good things your folks have done for you and to help get you to this stage in your life, and be grateful for that.

 

Very best wishes working these issues out!

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If you think about what wild canids feed their young -- they are weaned onto whatever the bitch is eating with the addition of a few digestive enzymes. It's not necessarily pretty because it involves regurgitation, but it has worked for millenia. By the time they're three or four months old, they're eating with the pack, without assistance from mom in the form of mastication and inoculation. I've never seen any benefit to puppy food. Most quality kibble will indicate on the bag that it is suitable for all life stages -- you do want to make sure that's the case. With that caveat, feeding pups a good quality adult food is the way to go.

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Over here in the UK there is a brand of dog food produced for working dogs (CSJ) by someone who started out wanting a good, cheap food for her own working collies.

Although the range does include puppy food (protein level reduced about 3 years ago from the original), I know that she switches her pups onto adult at around 12 weeks too.

 

Pam

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