Aggression question

[Scotimus]

You know i'm not even sure this is aggression. Maybe she's just being territorial? She's done this twice tonight, and I'm not sure what to think. After being outside for awhile, we came in and she went to her crate to calm down for a bit. First as the beagle walked past her crate she charged out at him growling and grabbed him at the neck. The a few minutes later the the lab walked past the crate she did the same thing again! The beagle has always been the alpha dog. Is this her trying to take that alpha dog spot? Is she being territorial? I'm not sure if I should reprimand her and if so, how? Jak, the lab is so laid back, he immediately backs down from everyone. But with Toby, the beagle, I worry that if I hadnt been there, they would have started fighting. The three of them horse around all the time, this is the first time it didnt look like playing. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Oh and here's an updated picture of her. Has nothing to do with what is going on now, I just love this picture.

[dinah_kay]

Could it be resource guarding? Have you seen this behavior elsewhere, or is it just associate to her crate? It sounds like RG to me, but without knowing your dog it is hard to say. My suggestion would be to put her on NILIF to start with until you have a better idea of the situations where she reacts like this.

[Scotimus]

Could it be resource guarding? Have you seen this behavior elsewhere, or is it just associate to her crate? It sounds like RG to me, but without knowing your dog it is hard to say. My suggestion would be to put her on NILIF to start with until you have a better idea of the situations where she reacts like this.

 

Thanks for responding. After 82 views and no responses I was starting to get discouraged.

 

Well she does have the "Callie only" toys in her crate as well. When she was smaller the beagle would constantly go in there and take them, and I'd have to take them away. Maybe now that she's the same size as the beagle she's being more forceful about them being hers. So is this good or bad? Is there a way to train her not to be so guarded?

[Shetlander]

It does sound like it could be resource guarding which is often seen as being territorial or "protective." I take a pretty hard line on RG with my dogs because I've seen it come to much grief. I would want to make sure she didn't get any more opportunities to practice this behavior. At the very least, I'd be closing the door to the crate and I'd consider whether there may be a better spot to temporarily move the crate -- maybe where there isn't so much traffic.

 

How old is she? She could be at an age where she is coming into her own and may be making a bid for a higher spot on the ladder. The stance I've now arrived at is I'm in charge and there are no openings for a number two spot. I used to let dogs work things out among themselves and that had a 50% success rate with the failures ranging from bad to tragic. Just so you know where I'm coming from. But I don't allow my dogs to think they get to say where another dog can walk or if it can be on furniture or play with a toy or approach me. Not to say they don't have their snarky moments but I try very, very hard to make sure the snarking results in the opposite of what they were hoping for. The easiest example is if a dog growls or curls a lip at another who wants to get up on the sofa by us. The snarker is on the floor, almost before he knows it. Same principle when I'm handing out treats. My dogs are never so angelic as when I'm dispensing cookies. They know the one sure way to miss out on the food is try to tell the others to back off.

 

If you do a search for resource guarding on these boards, I think you'll find lots and lots of information. It is a very common problem! RG can range from merely annoying to deadly. I need to keep on top of the BC and Lhasa, mainly because they don't care for each other and so it's harder for them to maintain that peaceful co-existence I aim for in my pack. I'd love for my dogs to be best buddies but my bottom line is whatever their feelings, they need to follow my rules which means no fighting or pushing each other around.

 

A nice little book on dealing with multiple dogs is "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-Dog Household." Here is a link: Feeling Outnumbered -- Amazon

 

I also recommend at least some of the Nothing In Life Is Free approach and just training in general. For example, having all dogs do a down stay for several minutes every day can be a good exercise for them to practice listening, waiting for your ok and seeing you in charge of all the dogs.

 

Any of that sound helpful?

[Tassie]

Wow, Liz - excellent post IMO.

 

The crate is the one thing I allow my girl to be mildly snarky about - but then I have the door closed when she's in there. I tolerate curled lips and a snark, but I wouldn't be tolerating grabbing - hence the closed door. Any other sort of resource guarding ( especially of anything that I am controlling at the time) meets the same response as Liz describes.

 

I find with Kirra that the tireder she gets (at an agility trial for instance) the snarkier she's inclined to be - so I usually cover up the crate as well as shutting it.

[Scotimus]

It does sound like it could be resource guarding which is often seen as being territorial or "protective." I take a pretty hard line on RG with my dogs because I've seen it come to much grief. I would want to make sure she didn't get any more opportunities to practice this behavior. At the very least, I'd be closing the door to the crate and I'd consider whether there may be a better spot to temporarily move the crate -- maybe where there isn't so much traffic.

 

How old is she? She could be at an age where she is coming into her own and may be making a bid for a higher spot on the ladder. The stance I've now arrived at is I'm in charge and there are no openings for a number two spot. I used to let dogs work things out among themselves and that had a 50% success rate with the failures ranging from bad to tragic. Just so you know where I'm coming from. But I don't allow my dogs to think they get to say where another dog can walk or if it can be on furniture or play with a toy or approach me. Not to say they don't have their snarky moments but I try very, very hard to make sure the snarking results in the opposite of what they were hoping for. The easiest example is if a dog growls or curls a lip at another who wants to get up on the sofa by us. The snarker is on the floor, almost before he knows it. Same principle when I'm handing out treats. My dogs are never so angelic as when I'm dispensing cookies. They know the one sure way to miss out on the food is try to tell the others to back off.

 

If you do a search for resource guarding on these boards, I think you'll find lots and lots of information. It is a very common problem! RG can range from merely annoying to deadly. I need to keep on top of the BC and Lhasa, mainly because they don't care for each other and so it's harder for them to maintain that peaceful co-existence I aim for in my pack. I'd love for my dogs to be best buddies but my bottom line is whatever their feelings, they need to follow my rules which means no fighting or pushing each other around.

 

A nice little book on dealing with multiple dogs is "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-Dog Household." Here is a link: Feeling Outnumbered -- Amazon

 

I also recommend at least some of the Nothing In Life Is Free approach and just training in general. For example, having all dogs do a down stay for several minutes every day can be a good exercise for them to practice listening, waiting for your ok and seeing you in charge of all the dogs.

 

Any of that sound helpful?

 

That is some great info. Thanks so much. I went ahead and ordered the book from amazon. I have a Prime so I get free 2 day shipping. Yay.

 

I'll try moving her crate to a less central area like it's in now. I've never made it a point to keep it closed when she is in it. When she's out with me I leave the door open in case she wants to go in there. So when she does, should I make it a point to close it? I wasnt sure on that. I always thought it was good that she goes in there to lay down on her own. I feed her in her crate, and the other dogs eat in the kitchen. Should I start feeding her near the other dogs? I just want to be sure I'm doing the right thing. Other then the way she acted last night she hasnt been aggressive about receiving treats, or having the other dogs around me. Though I have noticed when I walk her lately she's been growling a bit around strangers. Before she would want to run up to anyone and everyone, suddenly that's changed. Oh and to answer your questions she's 5 months old. Thanks for the help.

[Shetlander]

I find with Kirra that the tireder she gets (at an agility trial for instance) the snarkier she's inclined to be - so I usually cover up the crate as well as shutting it.

 

Oh, yes, that can be very, very helpful! I needed to do that the Lhasa as well when we went to agility trials. He often started out touchy and moved steadily into cranky about the other people and dogs being in such close quarters. I always thought of it as covering up an aggrieved cockatiel's cage . The only issue I ran into with covering the crate was when it got hot -- keeping him cool was always a challenge.

[Shetlander]

So when she does, should I make it a point to close it? I wasnt sure on that. I always thought it was good that she goes in there to lay down on her own.

 

It's good until it becomes a problem. Because of the rivalry between my meathead boys, I keep their crates closed at all times. Resource guarding becomes a non-issue when there's not much to guard.

 

I feed her in her crate, and the other dogs eat in the kitchen. Should I start feeding her near the other dogs? I just want to be sure I'm doing the right thing.

 

Personally, I would stop feeding her in her crate. She already obviously values her crate so no need to build powerful positive associations with it. If you move her food dish, be aware of any increase in RG about the food. I feed Quinn his meals on the other side of the kitchen gate from my other two dogs. All they seem to care about is bolting down their dinners, but I don't want them to even think about poking at each other's dish.

 

Though I have noticed when I walk her lately she's been growling a bit around strangers. Before she would want to run up to anyone and everyone, suddenly that's changed.

 

Hmmm, she might be in a fear period. For the life of me, I can never remember when the fear periods are supposed to be in puppies. A really good book for working with fear/aggression is Click to Calm by Emma Parsons. Actually, it's just a great clicker training book period. I love that book though, as usual, there are different schools of thought about how to work with reactive dogs. As an aside, I use a verbal ("yes") much more than I do an actual clicker. Less fumbling that way.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is sometimes underlying health issues can lead to personality changes. Given her age, I'd guess it more likely a maturational thing but still would want to consider when I might need to talk to a vet.

 

Provided she is healthy, I do think it is extremely helpful for the dog to understand she is not in charge and that there are clear limits to what behaviors will be tolerated. Sometimes you can see the dog visibly relax once they realize that their human will take care of things and they can just chill out. It can be a real load off their shoulders not to feel they need to control everything around them or be so on the alert for danger.

[herdcentral]

Though I have noticed when I walk her lately she's been growling a bit around strangers. Before she would want to run up to anyone and everyone, suddenly that's changed. Oh and to answer your questions she's 5 months old.

 

This is something you need to keep on top of and not something you want her to practise. She doesnt have to be overly friendly but growling is unacceptable. I would keep up a steady socialisation program along with obedience training. Be aware of when she starts to feel uncomfortable and dont force her to interact but make any interactions a pleasant non confronting experience for her.

 

I found using a clicker or a verbal cue and treats was most helpful with a young dog I once had that started to show similar tendencies at that age.

 

I tend to feed my 3 dogs in separate areas. They get on very well together but if there is ever a squabble it is always over food or bones. So feeding her in the crate is probably not the best arrangement.

[Scotimus]

This is something you need to keep on top of and not something you want her to practise. She doesnt have to be overly friendly but growling is unacceptable. I would keep up a steady socialisation program along with obedience training. Be aware of when she starts to feel uncomfortable and dont force her to interact but make any interactions a pleasant non confronting experience for her.

 

I found using a clicker or a verbal cue and treats was most helpful with a young dog I once had that started to show similar tendencies at that age.

 

I tend to feed my 3 dogs in separate areas. They get on very well together but if there is ever a squabble it is always over food or bones. So feeding her in the crate is probably not the best arrangement.

 

Ok I'll definitely stop feeding her in the crate then. She's to the point now that as soon as she hears the lid come off the container for her food she makes a bee line to her crate. the other 2 dogs eat in the kitchen. I'll try feeding her in the kitchen now as well, but on the opposite side of the other 2 and see how that goes.

 

As for the growling and such when we go on a walk I'll have to keep working on that. As for the verbal cue, should I be telling her no when she does it? And you mention giving treats, I dont want her to associate me saying no to something with then receiving a treat for it.

[mbc1963]

And you mention giving treats, I dont want her to associate me saying no to something with then receiving a treat for it.

 

I think the theory is that the treat or marker is associated with the stopping of the unwanted behavior. So... my dog barks at the window, I say "Enough!", he stops barking, and I immediately say "Good boy!" and treat (or click and treat). It worked for my dog with a "leave it" command when he starts to get tense and snarl/snap at dogs at the park. As long as I give the "leave it," he won't snap. If I forget to say it, he'll resort to his default behavior, which is snapping to drive off the dog that's irritating him. He gets treats when he meets without the snappiness.

 

MBC

[afrancis]

Scotimus,

 

I think you've got some great info so far. I know that when Skye was young, I was reluctant to correct her for fear that I'd hurt her feelings. Now I know this is the worst thing you can do. Your soft, cute puppy exhibiting seemingly benign snarky behaviour can quickly turn into an uncontrollable adolescent that is far more difficult to control.

 

I think it's really important to correct fairly, immediately and consistently, followed by a reward for listening and responding, whether it be a treat or a positive verbal "yes." So yes, you should be telling her "no" when she growls at strangers. But if you can, you should also be making associating with strangers a positive experience -- i.e. is there a doggie store (or other kind of store) where they give out cookies to dogs? If so, bring her in there for both socializing and treats. If not, set up situations where she gets a positive interaction with strangers: slip them a very small treat to give to her, but ask them to tell her to sit first. Nothing is ever free. But in order to make sure this doesn't turn into her believing that everyone has a treat for her, rotate this reward with simply a nice hello and "what a good dog."

 

I wonder if you walk your pack together on lead through the neighbourhood? I would imagine that this kind of exercise together would benefit Callie, as well as the rest of the pack. Get her used to being part of your group in social situations.

 

I also never underestimate the sound of our voice to our puppy. I always think of how I have introduced Skye to things for the first time. If its something I want her to be non-reactive to, I say, "It's only a bunny. You leave it alone." Or "that's a fox - you be careful". The more you can give names to things and a corresponding association (i.e. to leave rather than to chase), the more you can regulate their behaviour as they grow up.

 

All that being said, since I've only had a bc or bcx, I don't know if this level of communication with all breeds is equally satisfying or successful. Further, I've only ever had one dog at a time, so in terms of doggie dynamics, my experience is only from short period of times when we've babysit friends' dogs alongside ours.

 

Ailsa

[Shetlander]

As for the growling and such when we go on a walk I'll have to keep working on that. As for the verbal cue, should I be telling her no when she does it? And you mention giving treats, I dont want her to associate me saying no to something with then receiving a treat for it.

 

The approach in Click to Calm is to teach the dog an alternate behavior such as "watch me" so that when she either responds to the cue or offers the behavior on her own instead of growling, you then click/mark with a word like "yes" and reward. I think in Control Unleashed, there is a different approach where you actually encourage the dog to look at what worries her but I never read the book so that's not definite.

 

I've tried saying "no," "enough!" or using mild punishment for my Sheltie's fear based displays on walks and it didn't help at all. In fact, when I saw something before her did and would say "behave yourself," her ears would perk up and she's immediately scan the environment for what she knew would be an exciting encounter. I might as well have been saying "prepare to be a twit." But in less than a week of using the Click to Calm approach, she stopped alarm barking at people and dogs to instead prance at my side even if another dog was barking and lunging towards us. This was for an established behavior that I finally addressed when she was sat least 6 years old.

[PSmitty]

I admit I haven't read all the responses, but I think it's very likely territorial. Many dogs get snarky when they are in a crate and another dog approaches them. Quite a few dogs take pretty good offense to it. The fact that she came out of her crate instigating trouble isn't cool, though, and I'd put a stop to that and let her know that's a no-no.

 

The new growling at strangers would concern me, too. She is probably going through a fear period and I think you need to help her through it. She needs socialization with non-threatening people, people who will be gentle with her, feed her treats, and teach her to associate good things from strangers. She may never be super outgoing, but you don't want her to be afraid, as that can turn into fear aggression. Has she been to an obedience class? The socialization aspect alone would be worth it. Good luck!

 

Oh, and she is adorable! How about some more pics?

[Scotimus]

I admit I haven't read all the responses, but I think it's very likely territorial. Many dogs get snarky when they are in a crate and another dog approaches them. Quite a few dogs take pretty good offense to it. The fact that she came out of her crate instigating trouble isn't cool, though, and I'd put a stop to that and let her know that's a no-no.

 

The new growling at strangers would concern me, too. She is probably going through a fear period and I think you need to help her through it. She needs socialization with non-threatening people, people who will be gentle with her, feed her treats, and teach her to associate good things from strangers. She may never be super outgoing, but you don't want her to be afraid, as that can turn into fear aggression. Has she been to an obedience class? The socialization aspect alone would be worth it. Good luck!

 

Oh, and she is adorable! How about some more pics?

 

 

Well i definitely think I'm going to do some more reading on the click training. As far as walking goes I've discovered a few things. When I walk her by herself, she stays by my side and is generally very easy to control. But when my roommate brings the other 2 dogs she's a handful. If we are behind the other 2 dogs, she goes all out trying to get in front of them. If we stay ahead of them, then she is again very easy to control. The roommate and I arent always at home at the same time, but I'm trying to get it so we all walk together. No obedience classes yet. I've looked into what Pet Smart offers, and we have a local Bark Busters as well that i'm looking into. I figure the sooner the better for these. As for the socialization our house can be like a train station at times. There are always people coming over, and a lot of my friends have dogs as well. I guess I need to get her more out of the house and the yard she is familiar with. The local dog park only allows dogs over 6 months of age, so next month I'm hoping to be able to start taking her there on weekends. Time will tell I suppose.

 

Here are two more pics of her in the back yard from last weekend.

[PSmitty]

Thanks for the additional pics. Wow, she is super cute! Good luck with her socialization.