Help with pain

[MickeyDogs]

Yes, he is no longer in pain and can stand on his own.

Mark

 

So very sad to hear that...

 

teary-eyed at work,

Deb

[btrent]

We also use Glycoflex 3 (at the max dose) with good results. not sure if it's an issue here, but I do not recommend it for unneutered dogs though, as we've learned the hormonal component from the perna mussel can increase aggression and territorial male behaviors, and stimulate growth of mammary fibroids/tumors in females. They use low doses of this stuff at the veterinary reproductive clinics to stimulate ovulation and increase libido. Obviously not an issue with sp/n pets.

 

For severe pain Tramadol (ultram) is available by perscription and works well with few side effects.

 

Bromelein, yucca extract (the liquid not the dry), cynatine, Bone restore (by life extension) and l-phenylalamine have also been helpful for dogs of ours or friends - for dysplasia and various bone and muscle injuries.

 

We don't use Rimadyl, Metacam, Or Deramaxx because of the risks and side effects we've seen. Deramaxx, and Rimadyl too I believe, is sulfa based, and it can be a trigger for autoimmune disease in dogs under stress (illness, breeding, travel, etc), of dilute or excessive white coloration.

 

All medicines, including nutracueticals, have potential for reaction so use with judgement and with the agreement of your vet.

 

Hi,

 

Do you have background information or studies to substantiate what is written above about the perna mussel side effects?

 

thanks,

 

--Billy

[Lenajo]

Nope, just that both a major veterinary reproductive center in Illinois and also one in Georgia use the supplement in that manner, for that reason.

 

Before I found this I had put about a dozen working dogs on Glycoflex 3 - basically because it worked so well on my very old dogs I was going to see if I had improvements in any questionable aches and pains in middle aged dogs. Sort of "if it works, then we'll keep using it" plan based on recommendations by several sport oriented vet/articles by vets recommending routine use of glucosamine as a "preventative" in performance dogs.

 

I did not link the behavior issues (my boys were all at each other's throats, and everybody was suddently being "macho" when they had no history of it - which was driving me nuts) and Dinah's sudden explosion of mammary fibroids (which was flipping me out with worry) until I heard in casual conversation with a vet at one of the above clinics why they sold Glycoflex (the other clinic uses a similar brand, same ingredients) there.

 

It was a major AH HAH moment. I told my vet, who had an AH HAH moment. We took all of the dogs off the glucosamine and the male issues went away, and while Di's fibriods will not go away, they did stop growing essentailly immediately.

 

Since then I've told many people about our experiences and I can't tell you how many middle aged dogs, previously intact and well behaved, were nuetered because "he got obnoxious and was humping and lifting his leg" within a few months of being placed on glucosamine supplements.

 

The lesson is - just because it's "natural" doens't mean it can't do more than you paid for - both good and bad.

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Do you have background information or studies to substantiate what is written above about the perna mussel side effects?

 

thanks,

 

--Billy

[MaryP]

Another Adequan fan here. It completely changed my dog's quality of life. He runs and jumps and almost never shows any evidence of pain anymore. I'm a believer.

 

My ortho vet also told me they are now using stem cells to help dysplastic dogs. They draw blood from the dog, strip out the stem cells, then inject the cells back into the dog. I don't know any more than that about it but my vet told me it's very successful.

 

My vet is doing this now, too. We considered it for my foster dog, but at a cost of $1,500 and with it being so new, we opted for FHO instead. I also have a difficult time understanding how this could really work long term for a dysplastic dog. The reason they have pain is because they developed arthritis due to having poor bone structure. The stem cell treatment (theoretically) regrows the cartilage, but the bad bone structure is still there. So, you would think that the dog would eventually develop arthritis again. I asked my vet about this and he agreed with my theory, but since the treatment is so new, he couldn't really say whether this is the case. I can certainly understand stem cells being very useful for treating injuries like ACL tears. But, I can't see it being all that beneficial in the long run for structural problems like dysplasia.

[sandyleew]

This is actually a very old thread - almost a year. I did give Brew the aspirin for a few weeks and then went back to just giving him Glucosamine/MSM, Ester-C, and fish oil. This combination seems to work very well for him. He does still get sore if he overdoes the exercise, but all in all he is a very active, happy boy. I also keep him lean.

[Lenajo]

I've had good luck in the past with Adequen for managing/healing mild ocd (shoulder) - combined with crate rest.

 

I tried using it on Lena for her arthritis, but unforunately that was right before she crashed with cancer. My head knows the Adequen did not do it, but my heart just recoils at the idea of using it again. It funny how our brain puts things together.

 

 

Another Adequan fan here. It completely changed my dog's quality of life. He runs and jumps and almost never shows any evidence of pain anymore. I'm a believer.

[btrent]

Thank you for the prompt response. I have three male border collies who have all been on Glycoflex, (I, II & III at various stages, right now 2 dogs are on level I and 1 dog is on level III) for years, and have noticed none of the behavioral issues that you describe. They are all house dogs, live together and I have no fights or territorial problems. No macho problems at all. Two are intact and one is neutered (was neutered late enough in life--i.e. age 4 1/2--to know about being macho). Two of the three are working sheepdogs and the other one is a retired/companion dog.

 

I'd love to find some veterinary documentation on this because I like the Glycoflex for so many other reasons. A quick search on the net this morning after reading your original post revealed nothing (at least that I could find). We have a veterinary appointment this Saturday so I will ask her if she knows anything.

 

thank you,

 

--Billy

 

 

Nope, just that both a major veterinary reproductive center in Illinois and also one in Georgia use the supplement in that manner, for that reason.

 

Before I found this I had put about a dozen working dogs on Glycoflex 3 - basically because it worked so well on my very old dogs I was going to see if I had improvements in any questionable aches and pains in middle aged dogs. Sort of "if it works, then we'll keep using it" plan based on recommendations by several sport oriented vet/articles by vets recommending routine use of glucosamine as a "preventative" in performance dogs.

 

I did not link the behavior issues (my boys were all at each other's throats, and everybody was suddently being "macho" when they had no history of it - which was driving me nuts) and Dinah's sudden explosion of mammary fibroids (which was flipping me out with worry) until I heard in casual conversation with a vet at one of the above clinics why they sold Glycoflex (the other clinic uses a similar brand, same ingredients) there.

 

It was a major AH HAH moment. I told my vet, who had an AH HAH moment. We took all of the dogs off the glucosamine and the male issues went away, and while Di's fibriods will not go away, they did stop growing essentailly immediately.

 

Since then I've told many people about our experiences and I can't tell you how many middle aged dogs, previously intact and well behaved, were nuetered because "he got obnoxious and was humping and lifting his leg" within a few months of being placed on glucosamine supplements.

 

The lesson is - just because it's "natural" doens't mean it can't do more than you paid for - both good and bad.

[Ooky]

The stem cell treatment (theoretically) regrows the cartilage, but the bad bone structure is still there. So, you would think that the dog would eventually develop arthritis again. I asked my vet about this and he agreed with my theory, but since the treatment is so new, he couldn't really say whether this is the case. I can certainly understand stem cells being very useful for treating injuries like ACL tears. But, I can't see it being all that beneficial in the long run for structural problems like dysplasia.

 

I had similar questions since Odin's shoulder is now forever structurally comprimised. Our ortho surgeon considered her biggest stem cell treatment success (to date) to be a severely dysplastic GSD about 2.5 years old. It was so bad it apparently couldn't walk without starting to scream, and then would just stop. The dog was already on NSAIDS and supplements. She said besides the actual problem, there's a vicious cycle in injured/dysplastic dogs where the joint causes pain, so they alter they way they move to "gaurd" against the pain. Eventually this gives way to the joint moving less and less or even general inactivity; whichever the case the outcome is usually severe muscle atrophy. As someone here said recently (I think in regards Mojo's HD), the musculature can really help alleviate some of the issues and protect the joint integrity. So, the more atrophy, the more pain, meaning less joint use, meaning more atrophy. Finally the atrophy is so great it allows more physical damage to occur to the joint. In this dog, she said he recieved the SCT and in conjunction with rehab, was doing *great* just a few months later. It allowed the joint to heal and presumably replaced or covered scar tissue with fresh cartilage. The goal is to stimulate physical recovery, thus stimulating movement to allow the muscles to bulid up to protect the joint again. Also, while the new cartilage may be damaged again, 1) drugs to help the pain won't regrow cartilage and allow this sort of miraculous joint recovery to occur; and 2) most SC harvests provide enough SC for 2 or more treatments. We are paying to have Odin's SC cryogenically preserved in case he develops bad arthritis later in life, and can do another treatment then. I wouldn't have believed her as well if my friend (CSU vet school grad) hadn't concurred with this general story of how it was supposed to work, exactly. Of course this is all new, and we'll see as time goes on how lasting the effects really are, etc.

 

I've enjoyed reading this thread about all the supplements. We are on Synovi G3 right now but may switch to Dasuquin if it is cheaper. And it's good to know there are great drugs like Adequan out there in case we need them in the future.

[MickeyDogs]

Thanks, Ooky, for the explanation on stem cell treatment. It's all very interesting and sounds so hopeful. Good luck with Odin!

[Root Beer]

I've enjoyed reading this thread about all the supplements. We are on Synovi G3 right now but may switch to Dasuquin if it is cheaper. And it's good to know there are great drugs like Adequan out there in case we need them in the future.

 

It is interesting.

 

Since I last started, I put both of my older dogs on Dogzymes Phytoflex and I saw major improvement in both of them. Because Speedy is on the DGP, I put him on their Bone and Joint supplement instead and I also saw major improvement with him. I was just starting to see a good bit of stiffness again and was really happy to see the effect that the Bone and Joint had. So now he's on DGP, Bone and Joint, and Salmon Oil, in conjunction with a grain free diet. He's doing great.

 

Knowing my vet, I'd probably have to really push to get Adequan if they would go for it at all, but it's good to have another option in mind for the future, hopefully to delay the need for medications further.