A couple of problems! flat tunnel / hearding

[Mat7]

Hi all, We have been getting into agility for a few months now and overall we are doing quite well, I have had Maggie since june she is a rescue dog who is nearly 6 now. We are well on the way to a good weave and no problem with contacts etc.

 

But we are having a problem with flat tunnels, maggie will only run through if she can see the light! so I am after some imaginitve solutions to help her to see the light and run through without someone holding the tunnel open!!!

 

The other problem we are having is we can do a few jumps / obsticals and she will suddenly come inside and try to nibble / heard me. as if to say I have done a few things it is your turn now! yelling at her to stop or stopping the fun does not seem right as (but probably is) it would be a waste of a lesson. the trainer suggested a water pistol to give her a shock if i see her coming to get me?!? any thoughts on this too

 

Many thanks

Matt and Maggie

[RaisingRiver]

Not sure what you mean by a flat tunnel... do you mean a chute?

 

Chute:

 

If so, just keep working with someone holding it open... then little less and less. This may take several weeks. Eventually your girl should get more comfortable, esp if you throw her a big party (ie. lots of praise, treats) each time.

 

As far as the turning into you and nipping, could it be that your directions aren't timely enough? Most times if you are too slow with the direction for the next obstacle, dogs (especially fast, herding breeds) will bark, turn, or nip at you - kinda like they are frustrated. To curb this, you need to tell them the next obstacle as soon as they commit to the prior one. So as soon as your dog commits to taking the jump, you must say weave THEN, and not while they are already back on the ground after the jump heading towards the weaves.

 

If you are excellent in not being late with your commands, then you need to work on the actual behavior itself. Think about it as a practice session just to work on removing the behavior, rather then a session for agility.

[RaisingRiver]

Hmm... I wonder is using a chute like the photo I found above and using it also outdoors would help. It shows A LOT of light through it.

 

The kind of chute I use in my agility class actually looks like this, with a white barrel and a dark blue end - and we use it indoors:

 

But the light blue one in my previous post probably looks more inviting to a light-hungry pooch

[Mat7]

Hmm... I wonder is using a chute like the photo I found above and using it also outdoors would help. It shows A LOT of light through it.

 

The kind of chute I use in my agility class actually looks like this, with a white barrel and a dark blue end - and we use it indoors:

 

But the light blue one in my previous post probably looks more inviting to a light-hungry pooch

 

 

Hi thanks for your speedy response!

I myself have a tunnel very much like the one in the top picture, and we did have some success during the summer but the weather has been to bad to use my one in the garden, so we have been using the one at the class, which has a solid non flexable first part and a heavy canvas type chute (which is smelly lol i know i have had my head in it). So in ecence we are doing it the right way just keep on trying is the key!

 

And as to the other problem the trainer regularly say this is not dog training it is people training, the dogs can do it easily it is the owners that need the training to know what to do. So you are probably on the right track there too, I have only recently got to grips with calling the obsticals the right name..... for instance, flush with success with guiding her over the A-frame i hurtle towards the next thing yelling A-frame even though its a tyre or a long jump because I am thinking my havent I done well getting her over the A-frame.

 

I (not the dog) clearly have a lot to learn! lol I will get it one day! But i fear i may never be fast enough for her as she is like a speeding bullet!

 

cheers again

Matt and Maggie!

[RaisingRiver]

Yes, it is very much about training the handler. None of my dogs are speeding bullets, sadly, but I have had quite a few of those in my classes and every time it was the handler's fault for not calling the next obstacle fast enough.

 

You might want to try running the course without speaking. You'll be surprised that your dog watches YOU and not your voice. This helps in both quick command via your body to the next obstacle and you not having to fumble for the correct name.

[Root Beer]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaay back in Speedy's agility days, he had trouble with the chute, too.

 

I got myself a big box and cheapie plastic table cloth. I cut the top and bottom off the box so he could run through it. I put it in a doorway leading to a hallway so he had to go through the box to get into the hallway.

 

Then I tossed his ball into the hallway a few times so he had to run through the box to get the ball.

 

Then I draped the cheapie tablecloth over the "exit" end of the box. At first I left a couple of inches of "daylight" at the bottom. Then, I threw his ball to the other side. He had no trouble moving that flimsy plastic to get to his ball!

 

Gradually I moved it lower until it actually draped on the ground and he had to run through it and lift it up a bit to get to the other side. He really got the concept that way.

 

After we got to that point, he put two and two together and started doing the chute at agility class. It became one of his favorite pieces of equipment.

[Tassie]

Hi Matt

 

Yep, agree with the bit by bit approach to the chute.

 

But the main question which came to me when I read your posts was "What is your dog's motivation?" - what floats Maggie's boat? IMHO, to have a dog overcome challenges in agility, there needs to be big motivation - might be food, ball, tug toy (my personal favorite for revving a dog up). Whe you find the really big motivator, then you use this to help the dog over difficulties, like the chute. If you were using a tug toy, you'd have a huge play with Maggie as she came through the chute (being held open) - do that a couple times, then have it lowered a little, rinse and repeat. The play should be really over the top, so that getting through that chute is the 'Open sesame" for that huge game (or high value food reward or whatever.)

 

I have to admit I was concerned about the water pistol comment - IMHO aversives like that have no place in learning agility, especially as, has been suggested, the cause of the problem is likely the handler, not the dog. (I have a fast experienced Border Collie girl who will still come over and bite me if we're trying something difficult, and she's not getting the right, or timely, cues from me - I know that's a sign to lift my game.

 

I'd be using the 'bit by bit' approach to the shutdown problem too - not trying to do really long sequences, but setting Maggie up for success - working within what she can do, having a huge party/tuggy game etc., then adding in maybe one more obstacle, being sure to give clear and timely cues, then maybe throw a toy ahead, and run up and party with her.

 

Hope this makes sense. As far as I'm concerned, agility should be all about having fun with your dog - and it's more important for the dog to be having fun.

[Mat7]

Hi Matt

 

Yep, agree with the bit by bit approach to the chute.

 

But the main question which came to me when I read your posts was "What is your dog's motivation?" - what floats Maggie's boat? IMHO, to have a dog overcome challenges in agility, there needs to be big motivation - might be food, ball, tug toy (my personal favorite for revving a dog up). Whe you find the really big motivator, then you use this to help the dog over difficulties, like the chute. If you were using a tug toy, you'd have a huge play with Maggie as she came through the chute (being held open) - do that a couple times, then have it lowered a little, rinse and repeat. The play should be really over the top, so that getting through that chute is the 'Open sesame" for that huge game (or high value food reward or whatever.)

 

I have to admit I was concerned about the water pistol comment - IMHO aversives like that have no place in learning agility, especially as, has been suggested, the cause of the problem is likely the handler, not the dog. (I have a fast experienced Border Collie girl who will still come over and bite me if we're trying something difficult, and she's not getting the right, or timely, cues from me - I know that's a sign to lift my game.

 

I'd be using the 'bit by bit' approach to the shutdown problem too - not trying to do really long sequences, but setting Maggie up for success - working within what she can do, having a huge party/tuggy game etc., then adding in maybe one more obstacle, being sure to give clear and timely cues, then maybe throw a toy ahead, and run up and party with her.

 

Hope this makes sense. As far as I'm concerned, agility should be all about having fun with your dog - and it's more important for the dog to be having fun.

 

I think I will have to pop to the pet shop over Xmas and get a new tuggy toy as we have been using balls as she is a ball freak! (and food but shed rather have a ball) but it is not the easyist thing to use as a reward without upsetting every other hound there! I do have a tuggy toy but its only a little one so not ideal to get her wound up from a distance, i.e. she is bound to miss and get me!

I am sure she will get the flat tunnel (chute) as she is doing everything else so well.

And as for me, maybee I need to get up another half hour early on training day and have another coffee and clear my head to get a bit more switched on for her!

 

Cheers again folks

 

Watch this space for updates! although no classes till 7th jan now!

Matt and Maggie

[BC Wild Child]

Wing-a-ball

 

Wing-a-ball

 

 

Great for ball crazy dogs and works as a tug toy

[HighDesertSpice]

- I know that's a sign to lift my game....

 

Eavesdropping here....pardon, but what does "lift my game" mean here?

[Northof49]

Hi all, We have been getting into agility for a few months now and overall we are doing quite well, I have had Maggie since june she is a rescue dog who is nearly 6 now. We are well on the way to a good weave and no problem with contacts etc.

 

The other problem we are having is we can do a few jumps / obsticals and she will suddenly come inside and try to nibble / heard me. as if to say I have done a few things it is your turn now! yelling at her to stop or stopping the fun does not seem right as (but probably is) it would be a waste of a lesson. the trainer suggested a water pistol to give her a shock if i see her coming to get me?!? any thoughts on this too

 

Many thanks

Matt and Maggie

s

What do you mean by a few jumps/obstacles - 3, 4 10? How many weeks of classes have you had, and what has the focus of the classes been?

 

How are you rewarding her for doing a succession of obstacles? Are you getting her to come back to you for a reward or are you throwing/targeting the reward out to her? that can make a big difference. Your body language and voice tone can also set off unwanted behaviours, as well as over verbalization. Does your dog actually understand what her job is, or are you and her relying on you to babysit her through everything? I am just taking some wild guesses here.

 

I was just working with a lady with one of our rescue dogs and Tia wanted to jump up and nip at her hands while doing 6 weave poles, but not with me. Sue was using way to much hand motion, causing the dog to focus on her hand, instead of on her job of doing the 6 weave poles correctly for her reward. I tied Sue' arms to her waist with a leash, stuck a clicker in her left hand, and told her to let the dog work the weaves on her own. The dog had a decent understanding of the weave poles and it was time to teach her that it was her responsibility to do the weaves correctly - it was not up to Sue to make sure her dog did the weave poles correctly. Sue also had to learn to keep her mouth shut. I got out my roll of duct tape, plunked it down on the table and told her I wasn't afraid to use it

 

With trying to do 3 or 4 jumps, again Sue was yapping too much and was way late in her commands and rewarding the dog, so we worked on that. She needed to throw the toy out to the dog and giving the dog permission to "get it" as the dog was committed to the last jump. That way Tia kept her focus forward and off of Sue. We also worked on reward targeting where the dog knows where its reward is, but will never take it without permission. The dog must continue to work until given permission to take the reward, whether it be food or some kind of toy.

[Tassie]

Eavesdropping here....pardon, but what does "lift my game" mean here?

 

 

Northof49's post is very timely! What I meant by 'lift my game' was - have a look at what I'm doing or not doing as a handler that is causing my dog to become confused/frustrated and therefore come back and nip at me. She has a high work ethic and when she does that, she is telling me that I'm committing one or more of those 'sins' that Northof49 is talking about - 'white noise' verbal, cues given too late (or too early) or in an unclear fashion - or verbal conflicting with body cues - there's a whole host of ways that handlers can confuse their dogs!

 

That's one of the things I like about agility - it is a real teamwork thing, with a lot of responsibility falling on the handler, both to teach the dog in the first instance, and then to keep improving the handling skills. I'm a senior citizen, and agility has got to be better than crosswords for warding off Alzheimers.

[Mat7]

s

What do you mean by a few jumps/obstacles - 3, 4 10? How many weeks of classes have you had, and what has the focus of the classes been?

 

How are you rewarding her for doing a succession of obstacles? Are you getting her to come back to you for a reward or are you throwing/targeting the reward out to her? that can make a big difference. Your body language and voice tone can also set off unwanted behaviours, as well as over verbalization. Does your dog actually understand what her job is, or are you and her relying on you to babysit her through everything? I am just taking some wild guesses here.

 

I was just working with a lady with one of our rescue dogs and Tia wanted to jump up and nip at her hands while doing 6 weave poles, but not with me. Sue was using way to much hand motion, causing the dog to focus on her hand, instead of on her job of doing the 6 weave poles correctly for her reward. I tied Sue' arms to her waist with a leash, stuck a clicker in her left hand, and told her to let the dog work the weaves on her own. The dog had a decent understanding of the weave poles and it was time to teach her that it was her responsibility to do the weaves correctly - it was not up to Sue to make sure her dog did the weave poles correctly. Sue also had to learn to keep her mouth shut. I got out my roll of duct tape, plunked it down on the table and told her I wasn't afraid to use it

 

With trying to do 3 or 4 jumps, again Sue was yapping too much and was way late in her commands and rewarding the dog, so we worked on that. She needed to throw the toy out to the dog and giving the dog permission to "get it" as the dog was committed to the last jump. That way Tia kept her focus forward and off of Sue. We also worked on reward targeting where the dog knows where its reward is, but will never take it without permission. The dog must continue to work until given permission to take the reward, whether it be food or some kind of toy.

 

Hi

we are doing about 4- 6 obstacles at the minuute but we have had a couple of fun trials with 15 - 16 items. (in about 50 somthing seconds)

We have been going for about 15 - 20 weeks although I admit I was not very serious about it to begin with, I did not know a great deal about it other than I thought it would be benifical for a dog like Maggie and that it would help with bonding / training. We struggled a bit with foundation stuff because it did not seem to be as much fun as what the other people in the higher classes were doing! ( but could see why we needed it)

In reaility I think I always knew the main problems we are having at agility is more to do with me, and as I do more and more, and things start to get more serious, its time to ask a few questions, and think Alot about what I am doing! And as I have decided that we will continue to learn and progress, that it is probably about time to "up my game" and work a bit harder too!

 

Cheers for now

Matt and Maggie