The Shetlands have landed

[AK dog doc]

So today we went and picked up sheep. Nobody got knocked down, nobody ended up bloody or battered, and nobody escaped, so I guess I can say it went as well as could be expected. There are only four of them - few enough that all can be identified by name, which I'm sure seems sickeningly quaint to the REAL sheep people here - but (and this is the REALLY sickening part).... I'm already trying to think of ways to get the other three ewes. What is WRONG with me...?!??!!?!!

 

At any rate, the ram is already romancing the ewes (literally within about a minute of finding himself together with them) , so maybe evenutally there will be adorable lamb pics (and later on, tasty lamb chops). I also promise to get some adult sheep pics eventually, but it's getting to the dark of the year, so not enough daylight remaining for good photos today. However, I promise I'll try to get some quite soon, with your indulgence.

 

At any rate... I guess I own livestock now! AAACK! I'm still asking myself how this happened, exactly. I can recall some of the individual steps leading to my demise, but somehow I still don't get how events that (of themselves) seemed so completely innocent, have somehow inexplicably resulted in me owning sheep....

[Anda]

Congratulations, Doc!

[DeltaBluez Tess]

hang on, as you are going for one fast and fun filled ride of your life.....I started off with TEN and now have over ONE HUNDRED at sometimes ...READ that is TEN TIMES the amount that I started with...I told the hubby we were just going to get a few and he took the bait.....the best part is he keep better track of the lambs (ewes/rams, birth/time./location)...I'll get home from work and he will say "Yellow tag #4 had 2 ewes lambs by the pond at 9:30ish and are fine and under the back tree, Green tag had 2 rams lambs and a bald eagle was circling so I took them into the stall at 9:45, and the lambs were nursing fine and the pet ewe had a huge single ram and they are in the back lawn and the bent ear had twin ewes and one wasnot nursing well and was slow so I rubbed it with a towel and got it going" and in the next breath say he hates sheep......

 

...and loving every minute of it......

 

Diane

[Tassie]

And of course, then there's the gal who I went to for sheep lessons and worked as a farm hand for for 6 months. She started with one Border Collie, then got more, then bought some acres and a small mob of sheep, then bought an 800 acre property on which she runs about 1100 sheep - more at lambing time.

[Bill Fosher]

Doc,

 

One Shetland is proof of insanity. Four would be (let me get the calculator) four times crazy.

 

One hint. If you want all seven to get in lamb, get them to the ram post haste. At your high latitudes, the breeding season will be very short -- probably basically over by New Year's. Shetlands are highly seasonal sheep. As you're probably aware, ovulation in seasonal sheep is regulated by photoperiod. The farther you are from the equator, the shorter the breeding season will be.

 

Although, you're probably actually south of the Shetland Islands, or at about the same latitude. I know that Edinburgh and Juno are at the same latitude. One would assume that in their native lands, Shetlands would have made some accommodation toward having more than two or three cycles per year.

[AK dog doc]

Thanks, Bill - you're right, it's not a long season up here. We actually put them together yesterday when we got them to the farm... the ram immediately lost ALL interest in his new surroundings and began a buisness-like assessment of the ewes' breeding status. He was actually fairly reasonable for a ram... no objections to being trussed up in the marking harness, and not really dead set on killing us for the indignity of grabbing him out of his pasture and forcing him into a trailer and then decanting him unceremoniusly into a strange environment. Some of the ewes were urinating and squatting for him right away, so I'm hopeful that we haven't completely missed the breeding possibilities for the year.

 

However, you may be correct that acquiring him (and his harem) is a sign of madness. If you need proof, I should mention that I think he's really kind of a nice-looking ram - what I can see of him, anyway, given the wool. However, the good news on Shetlands up here is that they DO do well in this environment (that thing you mentioned about the lattitudes being similar). The environment isn't all that unlike what they evolved in. They're relatively easy-care as a result. Well, for sheep, anyway.

 

Just curious, though... why do you object to Shetlands? Personally I'm quite fond of the wool (I like the hand it has when I'm working it, better than a lot of other wools, actually; silkier), and I believe I may have mentioned: gooooood. Mmmm. Tasty. (Albeit small.)

 

Meanwhile, Diane, love the description of your " sheep-hating" spouse - and thanks for mentioning "fun-filled". That's encouraging. I'm still a bit astonished that I did this. (Am I INSANE? - Oh, wait, I believe we already answered that question.) However, if I start mentioning dreams of buying 800 acres and getting 1000 sheep, I am relying on all of you to STOP ME. Stop me now, before I become a sheep rancher in AK. If necessary, arrange for me to be kidnapped and taken to a location where they can control my madness so that it is not a danger to others.

[kelpiegirl]

The thing about keeping 1 or 1000, is that it is a full on committment. Every single minute of every day, you are responsible for their welfare. Doesn't matter how many. Takes longer with more, but it is still a big deal. Since you are a vet, you are in good stead, but there will be times when you wonder- why? But, with a good support network and helpful friends, you will be fine Just be careful of the randy ram. TOO many people are seriously injured by them. Never turn your back on him and don't let him too close.

[Bill Fosher]

Shetlands -- at least around here -- have suffered from the minor breed syndrome, also known as every sperm is precious. Lots of sheep that should never have been allowed into the gene pool were sold for big money because they were registered Shetland.

 

They're difficult to contain and seem prone to escape for no good reason. They are supposed to be tough, but that hasn't been my (admittedly secondhand) experience with them.

 

These factors feed into my general philosophy about sheep enterprises, which is that they should be scalable, to borrow a word from Silicon Valley. It should be very little more daily work to care for 100 sheep than to care for 10. And 1,000 sheep should still be a one-person job most of the year. In general terms, that means that I want sheep that I can replicate, and that need very little individual attention. Shetlands tend to fall down on both terms, partly because of the way they have been bred and partly because of the way they are.

 

That small carcass is no small issue either, when looked at from a commercial standpoint. Right now I am paying $75 to slaughter, cut and wrap a lamb whether that carcass is 55 lbs or 30 lbs. That means that on the 55 lb carcass, I have $1.36/lb overhead attributable to processing, versus $2.50 lb on the smaller carcass. Trucking also costs about the same for a small lamb as a large one.

 

A smaller mature size also means a slower growth rate and poorer feed conversion. Small mature size around here means the difference between a lamb that can be born on pasture and gain most -- or perhaps even all -- of its marketable weight during the growing season on feeds that it harvests for itself, and one that needs to be fed for several months into the winter.

 

As a footnote, I've only had Shetland meat once, but it was not yummy. It was tough and a little gamy. Reminded me of venison in some ways.

 

You know you're not dealing with a commercially viable sheep when the majority of sales are from one breeder to another, and that has been the case with Shetlands as long as I've been aware of them. Wool sales to handspinners is a pretty non-scalable market.

 

So the basic thing is, that if you're willing to have a small flock of individuals that are difficult to manage, produce small lambs that grow poorly, get out of their fences, and are almost an assured money loser in exchange for some interesting wool, then Shetlands are a good choice. They are a hobbyist sheep, and frankly, I think they are more likely to discourage people from getting into the sheep business than to have any other effect on them.

[juliepoudrier]

Wow Bill, why don't you tell us how you really feel? Obviously Bill and I (a hobbyist who raises a rare breed, though admittedly a breed with a strong appeal in certain markets) disagree on what makes a good sheep.

 

FWIW, Bill is right that shetlands are wily little critters and are good at escaping. The ones I've known have been quite hardy though, so I can't agree with his comments there.

 

Bill has a point about scalability, but I also think there's something to be said for conserving lesser used genetics (the whole diversity thing). I suppose we could all go out and get commercial crossbreds, but niche markets are worth considering, even if they aren't as scalable as raising scads of lambs to send to New Holland. And sometimes you have to work within the confines of your budget and local resources. What survives well in Alaska might not be the breeds/types Bill prefers, but that doesn't automatically make them sh!t either.

 

As for venison being tough and gamy, that seems to apply only to bucks. Smart hunters shoot does for eating, and the meat is tender and mild, at least in my experience. I expect the same could be said about many sheep, no matter what the breed. I have eaten tunis, tunis cross, Scottish blackface cross, Romney, corriedale cross, and probably other breeds as well--lambs as well as adults--and I haven't found any of the meat to be objectionable. I will note that I was told never to try lamb cooked by someone who didn't know what they were doing, but so far I guess I've just been lucky in that department.

 

J.

[BustopherJones]

Does this mean I'm not 100% insane yet?

The answer to that question should be self-evident...

[NorthfieldNick]

You know, my experience with Shetlands was the same as Bill's. This experience was through a friend, and a few things coloured it badly: 1) She lives where there is zero grazing at any time of the year, 2) she was therefore basically losing money on the carcasses, 3) she didn't have time to market or deal with the wool. Her shetlands were very good-natured, but they got out of fences that kept their goats in.

 

I, like Julie, raise a minor breed- Cotswolds. I love them. They're big, beautiful, easy to handle, amazing foragers, good mothers, heavy milkers, very low-maintainence. They're not the fastest growing things in the world, and supposedly if grain-fed they can put on more fat than is ideal, but I don't grain at all, and mine finish just fine for my market. I got the Cots originally because I like the wool- I still do- but it's the lamb that pays the bills (although I sold a raw fleece for $18/Lb this spring, and my yarn is going for $56/Lb, so the specialty wool market isn't so bad). Most of my lamb is sold custom-cut, and my customers who've had both ask for the Cotswold lamb over the crossbreds- they, and I, think it tastes better.

 

I also keep a flock of Coopworth/Romney/NC Cheviot/etc cross ewes for faster-growing market lambs. They grow faster, but don't forage as well as the Cots. I'm thinking of crossing the Cot rams on the commercial ewes next year- did it on a few lambs this year, and they're huge!

 

I agree that it shouldn't take much more to handle 10 sheep than it does 100. Although mid-lambing I usually wish I only had three bred ewes instead of 100...

 

Okay, point of that thread hijack is that there's a breed for every person & every purpose. If you only want lamb for yourself & a friend or two, and aren't worried about making money, a smaller breed that has other attributes you like enjoy might be perfect.

 

And yes, AK, you're joining us loopy sheep folks who've gone off the deep end. I get such a sense of peace & balance when I'm working my sheep- it's what I was meant to do.

[Bill Fosher]

Julie and others,

 

I only took off on the Shetlands because I was asked. Reading back, I probably should have sugar coated it more than I did.

 

Regarding the minor breeds thing, I have to say that I agree that preservation of minor breeds is important. But mindless preservation is probably worse than letting them die out. Ewes that need jugs and heat lamps for May lambing are not sheep that have a lot to contribute to the ovine gene pool, in my opinion. In many ways, the minor breed preservation movement is a fancy, just like show sheep but with less greedy motivations.

[AK dog doc]

Well, I do totally get it about wanting max carcass weight for production, if you're thinking market lambs. I think part of the difference here is that my goals most emphatically do NOT include getting into sheep production as a career. Could be there's no accounting for taste, or it could be that the genetics of the Shetlands up here produce a different quality of meat than those elsewhere, but my experience with the Shetlands is that I've liked their flavor the best, and I've never had a tough one. [Here we shold pause to remember that I'm fond of moose and caribou and elk and other game meats, so perhaps that makes for a different take on what the Shetlands taste like - although I would not describe them as "gamey" at all, at least those I've tasted.] As for the wool - that's of interest for MY use, not for commercial use (although $18/lb doesn't sound so bad!), so I'm not really thinking of it in terms of the market... but it IS quite popular up here in the various fiber guilds, I hear.

 

FWIW - and I grant you that may not be worth much, given that up until now my only "personal" sheep have been those I bottle-reared and either placed elsewhere or slaughtered and ate - my experience with the Shetlands up here has been different than described. Of the four people I personally know who have (or had) sheep operations, all have had Shetlands (in full or in part) and none have complained about escapism, difficult mothering, dystocias, poor milk production, etc.... mind you, the biggest flock was probably about 150-200 adult animals (plus the lambs), so perhaps it's a difference of scale; keeping 100 Shetlands in a fence might be easier than keeping 1000 of them in. Could also be that the environment suits them, or that (given that there are a good-ish number of Shetlands up here) the stock up here isn't considered so individually precious that substandard ewes get bred. Not sure what it is, but what I hear universally from everyone up here who has them is how easy they are to keep. ::shrug:: Maybe they've never had another breed to compare to; not sure on that. I do know that the one remaining bigger producer up here has a niche market for her lambs that she's pretty happy with. (The other producer moved out of state and I have no idea what kind of sheep she's running now.)

 

At any rate, could be in six months I'll be saying "GAH! Shetlands! What could I have been thinking?!?" Or it could be I'll be saying, "Man, I'm glad I didn't start with brand X!" Only time will tell. Meanwhile, I LIKE my sheep, so be nice!

[DeltaBluez Tess]

It's a matter of taste...some people like Shetlands and some don't. They didn't flock worth a damm and I used them for lazy dogs or dogs that assume the sheep would move in one direction.

 

I crossed them to my Cluns and the cross was wonderful. Great mom, easy keepers and sweet (as in friendly)

 

A friend of mine them as pets so they left. Unfortunately the neighbor next door, also liked them and feed them to much grain and killed them.

 

I would get 5 again if it worked out

Diane

[kelpiegirl]

And that's all that matters- that you like your sheep! A well known trainer said as much to me once- my dog under his tutelage was doing some really amazing things, and I said "wow, I can't believe the change!" He agreed, but he also said "but, you are the one working her, so what do YOU think?"

 

To each their own. I had Kathadin/Dorpers which seemed such nice sheep- until I tried to work Lucy on them. Now, my feelings about them have been coloured, and at trials, I get a little squinchy when I know that's what we have....

[Bill Fosher]

My perception of Shetlands could also be colored by the fact that they are generally kept by Bo Peeps, fiber fanciers, and dog training folks around here -- in other words, by people whose first interest is not sheep production. While I resist the prejudiced belief that if you only have five sheep you're not really a shepherd, there's probably something to it in this case. I don't think I've ever seen a flock of more than 20 Shetland ewes, and four or five is more common. People are usually drawn to them by interesting colors and small size.

[juliepoudrier]

HeyBill,

I understand what you're saying about "mindless preservation" but I think you're generalizing and that there are probably plenty of folks out there who are breeding for the right reasons and not breeding just to breed and increase numbers (there's a reason many of us read and own Sponenberg's handbook on conservation breeding).

 

For example, I have a tunis ewe (tunis are supposed to be dual purpose, so I try to keep both fleece and meat in mind when making breeding decisions). She has a not so nice fleece. Not unusable by any means, but just not as nice as my other tunis. And yet she throws the most amazing lambs (i.e., well built with wonderful fleeces). Would I ever breed her to a tunis ram with a so-so fleece, even if he was great meat quality? Possibly, but only if I planned for the lambs to be strictly market lambs. Generally I look for a ram who is as good as or better than my ewes in both departments. The lambs that don't measure up go to slaughter. I can't believe that a majority of the rest of the people who are truly trying to preserve rare breeds approach it any differently.

 

Interstingly, even though karakuls (my main breed) are really no longer marketed for their fur in this country (mainly marketed for meat and fiber), the registry still expects breeders to breed for the nicest *lamb pelts.* That's what defines the breed--not color, size, or anything else, but quality of the lamb pelt to make Persian lamb coats, hats, whatever. Of course to be able to breed for a lamb pelt, you have to do a lot of self-education on what's desirable, what's acceptable, and what's not acceptable, but it can be done. Right now I've assembled a flock from several sources. Some of the ewes have nicer fleeces than others, but what will count in the end is what sort of pelt they produce on the lamb. (Well, and I do like their potential for colorfulness, so sue me! )

 

Of course, I don't think Shetlands are very rare, and I'm sure their popularity for handspinners flocks and the like and the fact that many of these same folks may view them as pets means that they might be bred indiscriminately, but I do know several folks who raise Shetlands and breed and cull for the right reasons. So as with everything else, it's buyer beware when it comes to assessing a sheep of any breed to purchase or manage.

 

No breed is perfect, and even commercial production sheep have health issues (entropion in texels comes to mind), that breeders seem to overlook for the sake of some other factor. But I'm sure there are also breeders who try to get the absolute best out of whatever breed (and I'll leave the show breeders out, since many are not working with pure breed genetics anymore anyway).

 

I was thinking along the lines that AK Dog Soc mentioned--if Alaska resembles the Shetlands in climate, then maybe Shetland sheep are a breed uniquely suited for that area. One thing I like about my karakuls is that they were developed in the arid steppes and are hardy enough to withstand the exteme heat and extreme cold, not to mention lack of water, common to that region. While one might think wool sheep (especially ones with extremely long staple length = lots of wool) would do poorly in our current (desert) southeastern US climate, they are actually doing quite well here.

 

Anyway, just as with dogs or any other animal out there, plenty of varieties exist to satisfy us all.

 

J.