Eileen Stein Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Does anybody know whether the Probios gel labelled equine can be used on sheep? I have used the bovine Probios on sheep in the past -- never needed to use it very often but it seemed to be effective (for example, to restore gastro-intestinal flora after a course of antibiotics). Haven't used it in a long time, and when I needed it this morning and went to the supply cabinet I found that a mouse (I guess) had gnawed through the hard plastic tube of the syringe and eaten the entire contents! The local farm stores have equine, but not bovine. I read the list of contents, and they appear identical, but why the heck would they label it equine if it's the same as the product labelled bovine? I don't want to send off for bovine and wait around for it to come if I can use the equine today. Anybody know? TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Eileen, I'm sorry I don't have a good answer for you, but I wonder if they label it equine because horse folks would hesitate to use it if labeled bovine? And horses aren't ruminants, so maybe their gut flora is different, although your reading of the label would suggest otherwise.... I got curious and went to the Probios website and looked at the ingredients and they do appear to be the exact same. So I called the 800 number and spoke to a vet there who said they are the same, just a different color and that it would be okay to use the equine probios on sheep. Now let's just hope he was a real vet, LOL! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Can you compare the actual tubes? Maybe it's more concentrate in one form or the other. I don't know why but I always keep it in the fridge. That keeps the mice away. Not that I'd have figured out mice would go for that. I know some people that use a powder instead of the tube. I sorta compared it to powered milk vs. the real thing. Let us know what you figure out. Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Kristen, You may want to note in my reply above that the vet at Probios (I called their 800 number) said they are the same. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Thank you, Julie! Why didn't I think of that? I still think it's odd that they label them differently. Why couldn't they just say equine/bovine or the equivalent? But maybe just the mention of cows would turn the horse people off. Kristen, I've kept it for years with no problem before. I was amazed when I saw the job that rodent had done on it -- ate nearly half the hard plastic tube as well as all of the gel (it was a full syringe), although it left the shiny plastic label after shredding it into tiny confetti. I have an old microwave in the barn that gives me secure storage without chilling, so I guess I'll keep it in there from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 It may be a labeling convenience. Or, they are taking advantage of the deep pockets of the horse folks by using the smaller tube - they do that with Safeguard, too, I've noticed. Same stuff, just packaged smaller. Not very Nice, I don't think. Buyer beware, I guess. I do love Probios - I've used it with dogs while traveling or stressed out, too - better than yogurt and much easier to bring with. I feel for you on the mouse problem. My wonderful mouser has suddenly gone on strike, preferring the cat food we have been giving him for years to supplement his hunting. He's healthy, possibly he just doesn't feel secure ranging around with the loose dog problem we've been having. I've resorted, unwillingly, to bait. I hate exposing the local wildlife to bait, too, but the critters are actually getting through metal to get to the feed stores and meds. It's probably something to do with the drought - normally they aren't this desperate until late winter, but it's been a problem all summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Funny story about mice and barns. They'll get into my marking crayons if i leave them laying around, and then leave multi-colored droppings around. Festive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Festive is not the word that comes to mind! Of course, I recall the same thing happening when a rescue dog ate the kids' coloring crayons here several months ago. I sure knew what poops were his for a couple days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Duh Julie So much for me being a thorough reader. I don't recall reading that part of your post at all! I put bait for mice or rats under the house. I'm scarred to put it anywhere else. I left a dog supplement out in the garage. Now all the mice/rats are nicely supplemented. I was feeding the barn/workshop cat and thought the LGD's were getting into the food. DH found at least 10#'s of food in his antique player piano. He set a live trap (don't ask) caught it and let the rat go way back in the woods. I called it a rat field trip. That's the rat I think moved into the garage and ate the supplements. What a great idea using a microwave as rodent/critter proof container. I use an old deep freezer but it's hell to bend over to get things out. Now I need to find a broken microwave around. Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Wow, you have mice eating through metal? Those are determined mice. I keep my feed in galvanized trash cans and haven't had any trouble. We used to keep the TP in the fridge in the barn to keep mice away. Freshly chilled TP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Wow, between the rainbow mouse droppings and the "winterized" TP, life must be fun at Shoofly! I've not had mice get into any of my metal containers, but they sure did manage to eat through any plastic garbage cans.... My probios stays in the fridge and most other sheep supplies in a container in the house, so I've been pretty mouse free with that. I think the cats help a lot too (though someone needs to tell Moses to quit stalking chickens and bitties and get on with the mousing and ratting). Becca, Could it be possums or coons getting into your metal containers? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Life is *always* fun at Shoofly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrid Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 It is weird what mice will and will not eat. At our training building the mice had been all through a cabinet snacking, peeing and pooping. The only thing they did not go into was an open box of a well known brand of cracker. Now I kind of feel weird about eating that brand of cracker. I mean if mice won't eat it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 The really strange thing about the Probios consumption was that I have a Rubbermaid tote full of zip-lock bags of lamb milk replacer on the floor close by that cupboard. Wouldn't you think milk replacer would be more tempting than Probios, and that the Rubbermaid container would be easier to gnaw through than that really hard, rigid Probios tube? But there's not a toothmark on it. There were also marking crayons in the same cupboard, uneaten. Guess there's no accounting for tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 still think it's odd that they label them differently. Why couldn't they just say equine/bovine or the equivalent? But maybe just the mention of cows would turn the horse people off. It's always been our impression that slapping the term "equine" on anything means you can charge more for the same thing. Of course, sometimes there are genuine differences, I am sure, but by and large, I really think it's a money thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Hi Eileen, You've gotten your answer, but here's another thing to think about. On probiotic products, the expiration date really does matter. Chances are if the product has been lying around long enough for a mouse to get to it, it might not have been any good regardless of the label. Because I use it so infrequently, I have started to buy the smallest tube available, which is usually the horse one, even though it costs more ounce for ounce. I usually throw it out before I use it. But it's one of those things that I like to have on hand, because when you do need it, you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 It may be a labeling convenience. Or, they are taking advantage of the deep pockets of the horse folks by using the smaller tube - they do that with Safeguard, too, I've noticed. Same stuff, just packaged smaller. Not very Nice, I don't think. Buyer beware, I guess. It's just business/marketing as usual (what the market will bear). My favorite example is Ivermectin..... Human: "Stromectol" @ $1.73/mg of ivermectin Dog: "HeartGard" @ $41.66/mg of ivermectin Cattle: "Ivomec" @ $0.08/mg of ivermectin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 I find that all the sheep meds usually expire way before I need them. Then when I do I'm pitching out old and scrambling around trying to get new at a moments notice. What I've started doing is buying a large syringe full from my vet that I can draw out of as needed. If he's nearing the end of a bottle he gives me the bottle, if not he pulls it out and gives me the labeling from the bottle or just the exp. date from that bottle if I don't need the label. It's way cheaper and I'm not wasting near what I used to. How long will you let a wormer be outdated before you quit using it? I know most other meds have a short life but I always wonder about wormer. Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Expiration dates would be chosen by the manufacturer to ensure effectiveness (100% strength) when stored as labeled and NOT contaminated. They would have a safety margin in time, but I don't believe there is a generally accepted margin. Once past the expiration date the effectiveness would drop at some unknown rate. This drop could be offset by increasing the dose; however, the drug (and possibly the other componants) decomposed into other compounds. The product(s) of this decomposition nor the effects of these products on livestock may not be known. At least that is the way we approach expiration dates with our (my employer's) products. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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