work musings

[kelpiegirl]

Just wanted to share- as I am sure you all see the same thing. When you work your dog on sheep, and said dog clearly has decided this is truly the thing they were meant to do, and you are working on a specific task, and you say "good dog", does your dog come in to the sheep? I always knew she worked them just to work them, but now I have to withhold some good dogs, because she will move in when I am working on flanks.

 

The other thing- say you are taking break, and dog is chilling out. Dog has good recovery. Dog gets up. Dog looks at you and goes to gate. Almost like "uh oh, we best get back in there before them sheep get themselves in twubble".

 

Then there is the okay, I see, we're done for now look. I can only compare it to perhaps smoking a cigarette after a particulary fulfilling event.

[Little Bo Boop]

I can only compare it to perhaps smoking a cigarette after a particulary fulfilling event.

 

I obviously need to start smoking!

 

I've found I can praise Spree, after she's done some particularly sparkly work ;-) but I don't with Liz, as that just jazzes her up...so she just has to wait for me to tell her what a good dog she is while she's in the tub cooling off.

[Pearse]

Just wanted to share- as I am sure you all see the same thing. When you work your dog on sheep, and said dog clearly has decided this is truly the thing they were meant to do, and you are working on a specific task, and you say "good dog", does your dog come in to the sheep?

 

I've found the same thing. Praise during work usually causes them to lose focus. Their reward for doing something correctly is to get to keep working sheep, so I stick to the commands when working and the tone of the command or whistle will tell the dog if I'm happy with the quality of the work.

 

Even at a trial, when you are finished with the work, the impulse is to thank the dog for a job well done. My dog won't even look at me until the sheep are off the field so I usually just walk to the exhaust and wait until he is in the water tank (if and when he decides he needs it) before telling him "good job" which I still suspect is more for my benefit that his.

 

A lot of people from other venues have commented on this; why stockdog handlers don't fuss over their dogs after a run. Some do, some don't. Often it is the dog who decides. Many stockdogs couldn't care less about pets or praise if there are sheep in the vicinity. They know when they've done well and are happy with a job well done.

 

Pearse

[stockdogranch]

I use the "good girl" while working, especially when a dog is learning inside flanks. I can see they are sometiems hesitant, so the verbal is reassuring to them. But they seem to just keep on working. My young one, Tikkle, never does get it that we are finished working. I mean n e v e r. She'll call off readily, and go take a dip in the tub, but the instant my attention is elsewhere, she's sneaking off to the stock again. If I am truly absorbed in something else, like loading hay or something, she'll just go to the shade tree closest to the stock, lie down, and watch them. And, no, she does not have a ton of eye. So I don't worry about it. She will also go quietly and bring the calves to me--a lovely silent gather. If I really didn't want that behavior, I wouldn't let her be loose in the pasture. Riddle does a cute little wiggle dance when we leave the field--obviously very pleased with herself!

A

[kelpiegirl]

When I praise her, Lucy comes right in on the sheep- she's very focused- but we are working for her to stay off the sheep! My trainer keeps reminding me not to tell her good girl- but I am a dummy. I am trying to be quiet. I did praise her today for showing she had some gumption on a sheep

 

I think though, they do lose focus- the reward is right in front of them- we don't need to jabber at them

[juliepoudrier]

I use praise intermittently, like Anna mentioned, especially with the pups learning new things. I'm putting whistles on them now and working on inside flanks, so if they get it right, I will say "good boy/girl" but I have to admit that they don't actually acknowledge the praise. Still I think they can tell by my tone of voice that they made the right choice, for example, if I simply gave a whistle and they took the proper flank.

 

My older dogs generally don't get praise unless there's an unusual circumstance. I will sometimes give them a pat coming off the trial field for a job well done, but again I suspect they are more concerned about other things than whether they get a pat from me. It does make me feel better though....

 

Well, and then there's the time at the Montpelier trial last year when Kat got her shed on difficult sheep with just seconds remaining on the clock (Kat's not the best shedding dog, so it really was an accomplishment), giving us a first or second place I think, and champion overall for the weekend. This trial is held in conjunction with a fiber festival, so there's always a good and appreciative crowd for the open runs in the afternoon. After the shed was called, the crowd started clapping, and Kat took off running up and down the fence barking at them and having a grand old time. She knew they were clapping for her and so she put on a show for them, much to their delight! (Her previous owner used to use her as a demo dog at the Kentucky Horse Park, so she got used to cheering and is now quite obnoxious about it whenever she hears anything that sounds like it could be clapping). Now there's a dog that appreciates praise!

 

J.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm the opposite. I have lots of "bad dog" tones and no happy voice. My true chronically depressed nature coming out, I suppose. There are times when it helps relieve pressure, it seems, to switch it up. Not silly bouncy clapping hands clicker dog praise, but a quiet "Atta boy" when he finally GETS IT and pciks the right answer. I know if I "mark" a particular right response with Ted, it instantly fixes it in his brain and he'll never forget it after that. Ben is the same way.

 

I've heard Big Hat trainers say they don't praise, but the happy voice is still there when things go right. I think no matter how tuned they are to the sheep, the dogs still get some answers from that, too.

[Lenajo]

Verbal praise can be distracting and unhelpful for most work related issues, but like anything, it's not absolute. My Open male benefits greatly from quiet praise when he's tired in the shedding ring. He's not the youngest anymore and we've been a team for a long time. A soft "good boy" means the world to him, and he visibly digs in when it's given.

 

If my ProNovice dog had her way, she could reach out and give me the V8 smack for saying anything other than brief and sensible commands.

 

to each their own

[airbear]

A lot of people from other venues have commented on this; why stockdog handlers don't fuss over their dogs after a run. Some do, some don't. Often it is the dog who decides. Many stockdogs couldn't care less about pets or praise if there are sheep in the vicinity. They know when they've done well and are happy with a job well done.

This one took me a while to get, as I come from a dog sport background (agility), where you are just crucified for not petting/playing/stuffing treats in your dog after a run. Lou, who is extremely affectionate, just couldn't understand why I insisted on thumping him after his run, and like Pearse's dog, was more concerned about making sure the exhaust dog was doing a good job. I finally got the message, and have ceased trying to thump him after his run (or, perhaps more mortifying for him, kiss him on his noggin before I send him on his outrun).

 

I will give the odd "atta boy" when he does something particularly clever to make up for something particularly unclever that I have done. I don't think he cares about the praise, but it makes me feel better.

[Sue R]

In general, my dogs will avoid a touch from me unless they are quite convinced that all the work is quite over and done, and then they are more ready to hop in the tub or take a break than to be petted or thumped. I think that, for them, the work is definitely the reward.

 

In watching dogs at trials, it appears obvious that each dog's personality plays a part - some seem to enjoy praise or interaction, and some really dislike it. To each their own...

[Liz P]

Same here, my dogs hate being touched when they are in working mode. If I were to foolishly try and pet them they side step and if I persist I get a dirty look.

 

The only time I have used praise is to get a dog to come in faster, which is rare. Normally they are coming in fast enough on their own Mine don't even want praise once they are done, have left the field and have cooled off. It's funny, my non working dog friends have commented about how "distant" I am from my dogs when they are working. They don't think I give my dogs enough praise. (I give plenty when working on basic obedience commands.)