Arthritis, supplements, beds, pain mngt, etc...

[Guest pax]

Rosie has been intermittently lame and I couldn't figure it out. No soreness, no heat, no swelling, no pulse.

 

I was afraid that it might be Lyme's despite heaving been both tested and being on preventative.

 

She had to go under to get some dental work taken care of, (the poor old thing is now down to 5 teeth), and asked the doc to have a poke around, take some pics, maybe repeat the Lyme's...whatever he thought.

 

So he rang me and told me she has arthritis in her right shoulder. He suggested putting her on chondroitin and glucosamine. I am wondering if y'all have recommendations for brands. I have used Platinum Performance for the horses and like it but have never used their canine stuff. I'd welcome what y'all know about it.

 

Also, has anyone ever done any kind of alternative therapies in conjunction with these feed throughs? I was wondering if something like accupuncture might help with pain, etc.

 

She's at the right weight so I can't do too much in that direction.

 

Now I can get my husband to cave on new dog beds..therapeutic ones. With heat. Oh baby. Send me any bed suggestions you've got for those too, if you've got them.

 

Now I am off to hit search and google.

 

Thanks, y'all.

[kelpiegirl]

Um? No PULSE? That's a life threatening condition!

[Guest pax]

I'm sorry. That's barn short hand for "she doesn't have a racing pulse".

 

A racing pulse point usually indicates trouble of one sort or another. In horses a racing pulse point just above the coronary band, for example, is a tell tale for laminitis.

[MrSnappy]

Um? No PULSE? That's a life threatening condition!

 

I'd say it's worse than that!

 

RDM

[Root Beer]

There's a fantastic product you might want to look into. It's called Dog Gone Pain. It's not a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement.

 

I tried this stuff with Speedy as a "last try" before going to the vet to get a painkiller for him and the results have been amazing.

 

If you google Dog Gone Pain, you will find more information. I don't know if it would work for every dog, but in the future, it will be my first step for any of my dogs who have arthritis.

[kelpiegirl]

Oh- get ya- though in all my years in horses (most with a equine vet) I never remember hearing that term! But, it makes sense. Anyway, in dogs there aren't corrollaries between increased pulses and lameness, other than that for the presence of pain in general. Horses are the faberge eggs of leg issues. Dogs can usually survive relatively okay with a hitch in their gitalong. New England Serum has a horse product many use for dogs (chon/gluc) mix. One of my old dogs has even arthritis in her joints- but she gets along okay- she just moves a bit like Tim Conway. I hesitate before I start any nsaids because dogs just don't tolerate them well.

Julie

 

I'm sorry. That's barn short hand for "she doesn't have a racing pulse".

 

A racing pulse point usually indicates trouble of one sort or another. In horses a racing pulse point just above the coronary band, for example, is a tell tale for laminitis.

[Guest pax]

Oh- get ya- though in all my years in horses (most with a equine vet) I never remember hearing that term! But, it makes sense. Anyway, in dogs there aren't corrollaries between increased pulses and lameness, other than that for the presence of pain in general. Horses are the faberge eggs of leg issues. Dogs can usually survive relatively okay with a hitch in their gitalong. New England Serum has a horse product many use for dogs (chon/gluc) mix. One of my old dogs has even arthritis in her joints- but she gets along okay- she just moves a bit like Tim Conway. I hesitate before I start any nsaids because dogs just don't tolerate them well.

Julie

 

 

I'm not making it up, I swear. It's something to do with the how well things are able to move through the circulatory system, I guess, if there's an injury, it's harder to push the normal blood flow through. Either edema, or damage, or whatever. Probably AK Dog Doc would be able to explain it.

 

I think that's it, in oversimplified terms.

[kelpiegirl]

Hey Celia-

Just because I haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist )) I sure ain't the be all to end all of ANYTHING, well, except for maybe a couple of inane things- like remembering my high school locker combo

 

 

I'm not making it up, I swear. It's something to do with the how well things are able to move through the circulatory system, I guess, if there's an injury, it's harder to push the normal blood flow through. Either edema, or damage, or whatever. Probably AK Dog Doc would be able to explain it.

 

I think that's it, in oversimplified terms.

[sluj]

Sorry, can't help on the supplement question. For beds, a cheaper option might be to buy a memory foam topper (I got a cal king-sized 1" thick on from overstock.com for $40, and cut it in half to make two single toppers). You could probably get 4 4" corgi-sized beds out of that.

[SoloRiver]

I have heard good things about DGP but never tried it. Personally I would not use it except under the guidance of a veterinarian. If it works it likely uses similar mechanisms to the popular NSAIDs, and I wouldn't use those without a vet's help either.

 

Solo is on Rimadyl once a day, which he takes with an antacid under doctor's orders (generic version of Pepcid AC). His arthritis in both hip and back is pretty bad, otherwise I would not have him on a daily NSAID, particularly considering past experiences. He is having no gastrointestinal problems on this stuff. Most vets consider Metacam a safer choice than Rimadyl, but it almost killed Solo (you guys already heard that horror story so I won't repeat it here). YMMV.

 

Solo is on two supplements, one called "Joint Strong" that is made by the same company, Animal Naturals, that makes a bunch of performance supplements for dogs, horses, and humans. It seems to work fine. I chose this one because it has cooked chicken in it, and Solo is willing to eat it on his food. (I hate topping his food with something that he thinks is gross; he's not a picky eater, but he hates "adulterated" food, and personally I would prefer not to eat my dinner with something I thought was gross sprinkled all over it.) The agility people really like it, and when it comes to performance-enhancing anything they don't screw around, so I figured it can't be that bad.

 

http://www.an-nat.com/

 

The other supplement is Glyco-Flex III (the highest level), in the soft chewables which he considers tasty treats.

 

Every other supplement I have tried, including chewable ones, Solo considered unpalatable. This includes the Synovi G3 granules that are supposedly flavored to taste like liver. Solo likes liver, so I guess the flavor is not very accurate.

 

Solo also gets salmon oil and vitamin E on his dinner, salmon oil every night, E every other night (because it's expensive, and every night is overkill).

 

Apparently the Rolls Royce of support beds is the Flexgel bed:

 

http://geltecproducts.com/detail.aspx?ID=40

 

I have considered getting one of these for Solo. Sooner or later I probably will because I'm a big fat sucker. It is quite expensive.

 

Other than this one I think most of the orthopedic type dog beds are interchangeable. I don't like for dog beds to be too ugly so I tend to pick based on appearance. What Solo has is the Big Shrimpy bed, which is not orthopedic per se but is quite supportive and can be taken apart entirely (including the stuffing) and washed and is made of materials such that it should last forever.

 

http://www.bigshrimpy.com/dog_orig.htm

 

 

OK, other than the color it is an attractive bed.

 

You can also get dog beds that have real coil spring mattresses (just like your bed at home) but they are ridiculously expensive and quite ugly. Besides, while I'm gone Solo uses my bed, so I figure he's getting his share of coil spring goodness.

 

I give Solo massages at home too. All in all his arthritis seems pretty much under control.

[2 Devils]

Regarding Dog Gone Pain

 

I have 3 dogs on it -

 

ACD - I see no real difference and just stated adequan injections tonight but holistic vet says to continue with DGP. Foster has arthritis in both knees and left hip but not the arthimaxx (see below). we used rimadyl on a as needed basis and have for 7 years or so.

 

Toy poodle - has had severe back problems. DGP has made a HUGE difference for him. I took him off it to see if the DGP was really the thing making him feel better and it is.

 

Borderjack - gets some inflammation in his left leg - DGP has seemed to have solved this issue

 

I also use Arthrimaxx - a liquid that goes in the food

It seems to help all the dogs and they like the taste. I order it online

 

I also give salmon oil in the morning.

 

For beds - I would just go with something that is thick and somehwat stiff but not too stiff to be uncomfortable.

 

Don't be afraid to go to the vet prescribed drugs for the lameness - Quality of life is very important.

[Wendy V]

Everyone has to come up with their own methods, but for arthitis, lameness and general pain management, I treat aggresively in the beginning with NSAIDS (Deramaxx being my favorite), tapering down to a low mangement level once the pain is gone. I also supplement with Springtime, Inc. Longevity along with regular Adequan injections. I use this combination for all my dogs with arthitis/lameness issues, mostly due to knee injuries, with a touch of CHD thrown in. (Just call me the Queen of the MRIT repair).

 

I'm aggresive with the NSAID in the beginning because most pain is cause by inflammation and inflammation causes tissue damage in addition to the underlying condition. I like to stay ahead of the inflammation, if possible, and the dogs definately enjoy the pain relief! Usually, I am able to reduce the NSAID dosage once the supplements and/or other therapies kick in.

 

Every dog is different and each owner has to come up with a method that works for them.

 

Cheers!

[Guest pax]

Ok, so I'm still looking at all these links, and thank you very much for them, but can I just tell you I feel like a right wally, Starr has been sleeping on a gel pad since the spring. I've got like ten of the suckers sitting in the barn. We use them as saddle pads. They are slightly different than those pictured, but only just. Duh.

[btrent]

Hi,

 

Acupuncture and Chinese herbs can be very helpful. I just lost my elderly border collie, Augie, in May but he had good luck with that treatment, combined with Metacam. We were able to maintain him on a monthly acupuncture treatment that proved very worthwhile. He was on Metacam for a long time without a problem. I know others have had trouble with Metacam or it was not strong enough, however it worked well for us. (He reacted very badly to Deramaxx so I discontinued it very quickly.) I also had him on Glycoflex III, daily fish oil, a senior vitamin supplement, and used a grain-free diet. Tramadol worked well as an intermittent pain medication. That was very well tolerated and could be given with the Metacam. Augie was almost 15 and had many health issues but lived far longer than anyone expected him to. You have to assess what works for your individual situation. Massage and acupressure can also be very helpful. Also swimming in warm water keeps those muscles and joints moving without trauma and gives the older dog some fun activity. I have a 300 gallon Rubbermaid tank in my yard that is just for the dogs to use for swim therapy. These are just the things that worked for us. Good luck to you.

 

regards,

 

--Billy

btrent@sonic.net

with Bid, Chief and Coal

Sonoma County, CA

[C Crocker]

Pax,

 

 

I have used Orthochon a joint supplement ( from Platinum Co), as well as Platinum Plus ( which has some joint stuff in it but not enough to do much good ) , and salmon oil. Both my young dog and soon to be 11 yr old have been getting these supplements since early 2005. When I put my younger dog in training at one yr of age, I sent both up with her. Her trainer liked the Orthchon and started all of her dogs ( at the time about 10 of them) on it. She was trialing mine and her 's quite a bit and thought it was better than what she had been feeding. She still uses Orthochon and two of her trial dogs are 8 years old and going strong. We also added another Platinum product called Stamina for the three going to most of the trials.

 

With an older dog you might want to consider Adequan shots as well ( or maybe instead of a daily joint product). I thought lately about giving my older dog Adequan as well as she is getting a bit stiff in one hip.

 

I got my older dog a heated dog bed, which unfortunately unless it is very cold in the house is too hot for her so she does not benefit from it much.

 

I have used acupuncture quite a bit in the last 2 years and still have the chiropractor by once a month .

 

I think you have to kind of play around with the supplements and other support care to see what works best for each individual.

 

Good luck with your dog.

 

Carolyn

[Guest pax]

With an older dog you might want to consider Adequan shots as well ( or maybe instead of a daily joint product). I thought lately about giving my older dog Adequan as well as she is getting a bit stiff in one hip.

 

 

Any idea how long that can last? When we do the big beasts we can get 6 months to a year out of it..

[Carson Crazies]

When Ginger came up (literally) screaming in pain, I had her X-Rayed to find out she has a pretty good dose of arthritis where her pelvis and backbone meet. I started (like Wendy V mentions) with an aggressive round of Rimadyl and *total and complete* crate rest for three weeks (to get the inflammation under control). We weaned off the Rimadyl, and here's what we do now for maintenance:

 

- Glyco-Flex III (I've also done Synovi G3 tablets)

 

- Grain free kibble in the summer, raw in the winter if need be

 

- Acupuncture (will probably eventually be looking for a chiro for her too)

 

- An anti-inflammatory presc. by our holistic vet (a chinese herbal) - she calls it Body Sore. We use this as needed. Once or twice a day in the winter, usually once a day during fall and spring, and not at all in the summer.

 

- Fish Oil and Vitamin E daily

 

- Ortho beds

 

- Massage

 

- Rimadyl only when needed (which is almost never in the summer)

 

We also did a round of Knox Nutra-Joint in the beginning (I think we did about 5 months of it) which seemed to really help. There will probably come a point where I have to be more aggressive about it. I have little heated discs that can be placed under crate pads and whatnot for her. I also have a coat that she wears outside on the coldest of days (when it's 14 degrees and the wind is blowing) as it seems to help to keep her warm. She seems to be doing really well - after all of this was able to do a few agility sessions even.

[2 Devils]

There is a good holistic vet in Vienna, VA that you may want to contact. If you want her information please let me know.

[Guest pax]

There is a good holistic vet in Vienna, VA that you may want to contact. If you want her information please let me know.

 

 

I do, aye, thank you.

[C Crocker]

Pax,

 

I really could not answer the question concerning the frequency of Adequan usage in a dog. I can say I have never had it last 6 months to a year, but often I am using it as a preventative rather than a treament in a horse so we just give it to them even if they don't seem sore. The usual protocal when first using it on a horse is a shot every week for 4-7 weeks, then "as needed". In the two year olds being started it is used monthly, more as a preventative. In the older show horse sometimes more frequently, along with Legend. These are Reined Cowhorses showing at the toughest level with the leading trainer for this discipline and he tries to cover all his bases with the soundness issues. I do compare what theses horses do physically to what an active sheepdog does.

 

This thread has made me think that I need to stop being lazy and get some Adequan into my older dog.

To whoever is using it here are you using the horse vial and just using it less or are you using a dog size vial? It would be great to be able to use the horse size and draw from it if possible, since I already have those.

 

I guess I would do it the same as a horse, if I put the dog on a series and saw no improvement in their lameness/stiffness then I would stop using it.

 

Carolyn

[Guest pax]

I think we are cross talking...when I've used Adequan/Legend in the horses it's been an injection right into the problem joint.

 

I don't do it myself, I take them down to Virginia Equine Imaging and have them do it. Unless it's one we've hit over and over in the hocks/stifles and then my vet can do those old geezers standing in the aisle.

 

I don't feed it.

[SoloRiver]

Solo gets Adequan sq once a week. I just lift his scruff and inject it there.

[2 Devils]

Since we just started adequan with foster this is what we were told to do

 

1 shot every 4 days for 7 treatments we will then do a shot every 2 weeks. I really hope the adequan helps since my acd is in such pain and lack of activity is causing some temperament issues...

 

Call Dr. Carol Lundquist - the website is www.carollundquist.com but only has a number. I personally have not used her but I know many people that have and so far everyone raves about her. The holistic vet I use will actually come to the house to work with all 4 dogs.

 

We also do chiropractic and acupuncture when needed so having the vet come to us is worth the money.

[Guest pax]

Since we just started adequan with foster this is what we were told to do

 

1 shot every 4 days for 7 treatments we will then do a shot every 2 weeks. I really hope the adequan helps since my acd is in such pain and lack of activity is causing some temperament issues...

 

Call Dr. Carol Lundquist - the website is www.carollundquist.com but only has a number. I personally have not used her but I know many people that have and so far everyone raves about her. The holistic vet I use will actually come to the house to work with all 4 dogs.

 

We also do chiropractic and acupuncture when needed so having the vet come to us is worth the money.

 

 

Is it that Agape woman? The one in Upperville? I'm sorry, I can't remember her real name.

 

ETA Duh..not Upperville.. The Plains?

[btrent]

Hi Carolyn,

 

Interesting that you mentioned the Platinum Performance; two other gals who are also combo horse/dog enthusiasts were telling me about that line of products just last weekend. One of them liked the canine version better than the equine version however. They both noted improved coats, etc. on the PP in their dogs. However we were questioning the PP because it contains Flax as a main ingredient. I am interested to see that you add the salmon oil in addition to the PP. Most of what I have read stresses that dogs make better use of fish oil than flax seed oil, so I see you are covering all the bases. I take it you have had no troubles in the dogs using a supplement with a high amount of flax in it in addition to the salmon oil? Also interested in the Orthochon. I will take a look as it contains things such as boswellia that I was giving separately to the "problem-middle-child". My (now) oldest dog is very picky and will eat the Glycoflex chews so I wouldn't change his supplement, however.

 

Does anyone know of a regular vitamin supplement for dogs that comes in a chew that is similar to the Glycoflex chew? I am using the Vetri-Science Canine Plus vitamins, but the 8 year old won't eat them and he is probably the one who can use it the most, since he is doing all the work.

 

Thanks,

 

-Billy

Bid (age 8), Chief (age 5), Coal (age 1)