walk up, stand there

[kelpiegirl]

Those of you in the know- can we talk about "walk up" and "stand there"? When do you use this, and well, anything else you can say would be great!

Julie

[juliepoudrier]

Wow, that's a *wide open* area for discussion. Are you talking about "walk up-stand there" in combination? Usually I use it when I'm holding sheep in a corner and trying to catch one for medicating or whatever. I use stand there a lot in general farm work since Twist likes to creep in occasionally, but I can't say that I ever really use it in a trial situation and I don't really train it per se. It really just comes out when I'm doing some physical work with sheep and want the dog to *stand there* and not put any more pressure on the sheep. I guess I would use "walk up" before that if the dog weren't close enough to hold the sheep tight enough to allow me to grab the one I wanted. Is that what you were asking?

 

J.

[jdarling]

I've got a very high drive, reactive 2 year old female. Having her lie down just amps her up like crazy, so by the time I flank her, she's out of her skin. I changed my whole normal training method so that everything is brought down about ten notches, so we "walk up" nice and calmly on the sheep, and she's learning "stand there" ... and after the "stand there" ... I keep her guessing. Sometimes I'll flank her, sometimes I'll down her, sometimes I'll call her off with a good praising ... but it has helped a ton to be able to control her. She's now able to help me in the pens and other tight places.

 

Jodi

[Bo Peep]

I swore I would stay off this topic board. But a "there" means a position that you want your dog to say at. If he/she is perfect- LOL. I used a stand for more strong eye's dogs and a down would shake them up and when you wanted them to stand the sheep would go out of control. It depends on the dog AND the sheep. A "walk up" should be a very easy one to two step, depending on the intensity of your dog. Sometimes one paw will be enough.

[kelpiegirl]

OH MY. I do this exact SAME thing with Lucy. Her downs are her "hard thing" and she is better at them when I don't make her stay down too long, and sometimes either have her walk up, or flank. Her flanks are getting better- I should say her bad side is getting better, he good side is still good Wow, it really is amazing that we are doing the same thing... Lucy really likes this change up in our work. I like having her stand there- more than just downs too.

Julie

 

I've got a very high drive, reactive 2 year old female. Having her lie down just amps her up like crazy, so by the time I flank her, she's out of her skin. I changed my whole normal training method so that everything is brought down about ten notches, so we "walk up" nice and calmly on the sheep, and she's learning "stand there" ... and after the "stand there" ... I keep her guessing. Sometimes I'll flank her, sometimes I'll down her, sometimes I'll call her off with a good praising ... but it has helped a ton to be able to control her. She's now able to help me in the pens and other tight places.

 

Jodi

[kelpiegirl]

That's what I always took it to mean too. The "there" part she likes a lot- because she is on her feet- she likes that

Julie

I swore I would stay off this topic board. But a "there" means a position that you want your dog to say at. If he/she is perfect- LOL. I used a stand for more strong eye's dogs and a down would shake them up and when you wanted them to stand the sheep would go out of control. It depends on the dog AND the sheep. A "walk up" should be a very easy one to two step, depending on the intensity of your dog. Sometimes one paw will be enough.

[jdarling]

I swore I would stay off this topic board. But a "there" means a position that you want your dog to say at. If he/she is perfect- LOL.

 

Diane ... if you're talking about just "there" ... I use "there" differently ... but I don't have nearly as much experience as you do. "There" to my dogs means stop flanking and turn in and start walking up right there. Am I wrong here? Should I change that?

 

When your dogs are driving to the first drive panel, and you need them to start the crossdrive, and you flank them around ... how to you get them to stop off-balance and start walking in to start the crossdrive? And what kind of whistle do you use for it? I am having a hard time to get my dog to understand my "there" whistle, because his stop whistle is just a short, high pitched toot.

 

Jodi

[Little Bo Boop]

"There" to my dogs means stop flanking and turn in and start walking up right there

 

 

Jodi, that's how I view a 'there' as well. FWIW LOL. Stopping the dog off balance with a 'there' and then walking straight on to the stock...or giving a Flank and then a There....

 

For a "there' whistle, (mine is just a short tweet) but couldn't you use your walk up whistle, I think I actually do that sometimes anyway...and it seems to work.

[Caroline Reichard]

I feel a little conspicuous posting, but junior members gotta start somewhere, I guess.

 

On the farm doing chores, I tell my dogs to "stay there," (which, I guess, is the same thing as "stand there") when I want them to Stop Moving and Stay Where You Are. This includes when cars are coming, when I want to allow sheep to escape, or when I want to open a gate and not have the dog push the sheep onto it before I have opened it all the way - intact, it was in precisely this situation that the command first appeared, because I was sick of the dog pushing the sheep into me and the gate. It's an obedience command. In training, I use it if I want to reposition myself but keep the dog where he's at. I never use this command to have a dog hold sheep, since the dog heeds to move to cover when holding.

 

I tell a dog "right there" when it is doing exactly what I want, I have nothing intelligent to add to our conversation, but I want to stay in contact so my next command wont be jarring.

 

"Walk up," always means" walk into the sheep, but "get up" can have more assertive connotations: I want the sheep moving and don't care too much about how the dog does it. It is one step below a grip command.

 

I don't know if this is helpful for anyone else, but it is what comes out of my mouth on the farm, for the most part starting spontaneously while doing chores.

[juliepoudrier]

I think the dogs learn the contexts of our commands and work from there. So while "there" means stop flanking and turn in there, it can also mean steady up right there (this is usually with young dogs who might want to drift around to the heads when learning to drive) or stand there when I want the dog to hold the sheep in a specific spot. FWIW, my "there" whistle is the same as my "steady" whistle, a short, sharp blast, kind of an attenuated version of my stop whistle.

 

While Caroline makes a good point about the dog needing to cover when holding sheep, I trust my dogs to stand there when told, but to also cover sheep who try to break away (because for me--or my dogs--"stand there" really means "do not move forward and put pressure on the sheep" but doesn't mean "don't move, period"). That is, the one command doesn't preclude the dog deciding to do what's right and catch the escapees while I'm busy doing something else. In fact, I wouldn't abide a dog who would just stay there because I had said "stand there" and NOT cover escaping sheep. I expect my dogs to think about the situation and react appropriately without being told to do so.

 

Like Caroline says, "walk up" for me always means walk straight in. "Get up" can mean get up from a lying down position (especially if I just need the slightest bit of pressure added, say, at the pen or the shed or if the dog is a bit clappy and slow to rise to walk up) or hurry up if the dog is taking too long moving the flock (say, perhaps because a sheep is challenging the dog on the other side of the flock and I can't see what's going on over there). When I say "get up" in that context (usually it's "get up, get up, get up") that means to the dog to do what is necessary to get the flock moving, da**it! "Get up" is not my dog's grip command, but the dog can certainly translate it as such in this context....

 

J.

[mbernard2424]

Tee, hee, couldn't resist ... "walk up, stand there" sounds like some sort of a line dance to me.

[Caroline Reichard]

Tee, hee, couldn't resist ... "walk up, stand there" sounds like some sort of a line dance to me.

 

 

Well, sometimes it feels like it, too.

 

Julie wrote: "In fact, I wouldn't abide a dog who would just stay there because I had said "stand there" and NOT cover escaping sheep. I expect my dogs to think about the situation and react appropriately without being told to do so."

 

I know just what you mean, but sometimes the whole point is to let the sheep leave, so I imagine everyone has a command that says, "let 'em go and you stay put." I suppose I could use a call off, but if they are already still, "stay there" is just what seems to come spontaneously out of my mouth.

[Bruce Smart]

When doing the international shed or splitting off a few sheep to take to a training field we don't want a dog to use its initiative and catch escaping sheep. It must stay in position while we decide what to let go. I signal my dog with "this", "stand" "stay" as required.

 

Bruce S

[Shoofly]

Hey Carolyn - I use "stay there" the same way. "Lie down" or "stand" means hold still and stop putting pressure on the sheep, but cover anything that breaks. "Stay there" means keep your butt on the ground even if the sheep run off. I used it a lot this year during lambing actually when i'd be checking the flock or doing some sorting and such, using Gael. It was kind of funny, it almost felt like i'd laid aside a tool sometimes when i'd need her for something. "Now where did i leave that hammer, oops, i mean Gael?"

[juliepoudrier]

Well I guess I wasn't clear in my earlier explanation. When I use stand there, it's usually because we're holding the sheep in the corner so I can worm or do something similar (I have no sorting system, so it's just me and the dog and the fence corner or run-n shed). In that case, I am busy treating sheep and I expect the dog to stand there (not put forward pressure on the sheep) but to cover escapees as necessary, since I'm busy doing something else and can't stop to command the dog to keep the sheep where we have them (I also use a "get back" command for when the dog can't help itself and has crept forward anyway, causing the sheep to crowd me too much). In the case of an international shed (which I must admit I don't do much) or if I'm counting heads and so letting a few members of the flock escape past me at a time, I also use "stay" or "stay there" or even "lie down, stay" to tell the dog that it's okay to let them go.

 

Bruce,

I also use "this" or "these" to indicate sheep I want to keep. For example, this past weekend I went to help a friend move part of her flock off another friend's pasture. The other friend had goats and sheep of his own on that same pasture, so we had to separate her sheep from his goats and sheep and load hers on a stock trailer. As we were loading the sheep on the trailer, the goats, being goats, wanted to have a Mexican standoff with the dog, but I was able flank her to push the sheep past the goats and then tell her to "leave it" (meaning the goats, since she wanted to gather them too) and get "these" meaning the sheep and load them up, leaving the goats standing there wondering what happened to the fight they were anticipating.

 

J.