Olivia Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 If this needs to be in the Rescue forum please feel free to move it. I thought it would get more reads here. A little history. I picked up our new foster 6/25. She was pulled from a hording case. The woman had 50+ dogs in her home and backyard. Sox is only about 4.5 months old and had lived there since leaving her mom. We assumed that she was not born there as there were no other border collie puppies or adults there. She lived outside in a smallish pen with several other dogs. She was filthy and covered (and I do mean covered!) in fleas. I got her, bathed her, frontlined her and dewormed her. She is scheduled for her spay later this week. Other than the fleas and some slight anemia from the fleas and worms she is in good health. Now the problem. I have my two border collies who don't really associate with her at all. Griffin hates all puppies so he stays on the other side of the baby gates from Sox. Carlie doesn't mind puppies but doesn't play with them either. So at our house she interacts mainly with my husband and I. She is a sweetie. Loves belly rubs and will roll over for them constantly. I took her to a friend's house who has two jack russel terrors to let her play since she seems to want to play with our dogs, they just ignore her. She was a little surprised at the younger of the two who was really trying to play. She did play chase eventually, she enjoyed being the chaser and they ran around like mad for a while. But every time Frodo would turn around and play bow to her she would freeze and look very uncertain. If he approached she would growl a little and turn away or run away with her tail tucked if he approached quickly. But if he ran away she would chase. Later as we were eating I had Sox tied to my chair so I could watch her and the older of the two jacks approached. Sophie is 13 years old and not at all pushy but Sox snarled at her and then lunged at her barking! I corrected Sox verbally and she immediately rolled over and quit barking but still wasn't comfortable. Yesterday I had her at work (I work at a dog boarding/training facility) and in a smallish cage/kennel that was the top kennel, about chest high to me. Another employee's dog was loose in the area and popped up on her hind legs to see Sox in her kennel. Sox again growled and barked all the while making little dashes at the front of the cage! I think it is fear aggression. She doesn't know how to play or interact properly so she is making the first offensive move towards other dogs. We also wonder if she had to fight for her food or attention in her former home so she is doing the same behaviors that she was there. I'm trying to let her interact with Carlie more but Carlie is the exact kind of dog that doesn't worry her at all since she doesn't make any play moves toward Sox. Do I need to find more puppies for her to interact with? Do I interfere if she acts scared or aggressive toward the other dogs? What do I need to tell potential adopters to help her get over this? Thanks, Olivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudlucky Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hi there, It's just my opinion, but I would suggest you talk to a dog behaviourist or trainer... she has definately got issues b/c of her previous situation and she will need special 'training' and extra assurance to show her that it's okay to play with other dogs - maybe the dogs she was kept with fought with her? It sounds like she's acting out of fear... also, I wouldn't suggest overwhelming her too soon with too many dogs at one time - you should take it slow. My Golden Retriever had a few issues with other dogs - she used to be afraid of any dog that appraoched her - so when I enrolled her for obedience training the trainer first worked with her to get her used to other (non familiar) dogs... she was ok with our Jack Russell but afraid of any other dogs she didn't know and would either run away with her tail between her legs (like you described) or snap at them... and I'm glad we sorted that out before I got the BC! She didn't mind the new dog at all and now loves to meet new friends! Hope this helps you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted July 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Thanks, She is in a puppy class that only has 3 other puppies in it. She is great while working but when the puppies are allowed to socialize with each other after class if they get too rowdy she gets scared and runs to me. I've been praising her for correct interactions, tail wagging, sniffing, etc. and removing her from the situation if she gets overwhelmed. Olivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Get the book "Fight" by Donaldson - fabulous resource on dog-dog problems and very easy to read imo. Should help you find a way to effectively address her behavior before it becomes a habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 I agree that a behaviorist is a good idea. I lucked out, got a good one who understood my dog's fear reactivity, and he helped take away my own uncertainty and fear. I still manage Buddy after 2 years, but to everyone on the outside, he looks pretty normal. Definitely sounds like fear and reactivity. I'm no expert, but I can say that Buddy did best with slow introductions to fearful stimuli, and lots of treating for "normal" behavior. Pushing him at things too fast was a recipe for a step backwards, so I'm extra careful with how we approach all new situations. Sometimes he surprises me and does really well, and it never hurts that I take my time with him. (In fact, my watchfulness has helped me avoid some sticky situations that the owners of "normal" dogs get in at our local park when their overly friendly or barky dogs run at a strange dog or a child.) With dog socialization, it might help to only approach dogs that your pup seems comfortable with. Maybe one puppy from your class, or some other dog you encounter on a random walk, will be your dog's first friend, and she can build her social/play skills until she's more comfortable with all dogs? One thing that did work with my dog was having him be NEAR other dogs for a while without actually interacting with them. Basic obedience, for Buddy, was spent crouched under the chair I sat in, at the back of the hall where all the other dogs were walking around. It took nearly the first six weeks for him to be in the room with dogs and not have a meltdown. We had to leave during the middle of the session several times. We were very lucky in that there's a small park nearby where lots of ladies walk their dogs. They were wonderful when I explained Buddy's situation, and were very patient with my loitering near them without actually talking to them! We did a LOT of walking behind groups of owners and dogs, so Buddy could get familiar with the scents but not have to do face-to-face introductions. One big man, a therapist who works with troubled adolescents, made a point of walking very slowly in front of us, with treats in his hand, until after MONTHS, Buddy could meet him without barking. (Now, he runs to this man like a long-lost friend. Naturally, the guy is kind of pleased!) The slow introduction seemed to work, and after time Buddy relaxed near familiar dogs we saw every day, and could sniff/meet with certain dogs without being scared, and eventually, one-on-one, he even learned to let his guard down and play. It's been two years, and the very best he's done is to actually play with a familiar group of three dogs he trusts. Introduce a strange dog, or even one extra friend, and we cross his threshold and he can't handle it. I'm not sure how this relates to your situation. My dog was an adolescent (18 months or so) when I got him, which is a very different thing from a young pup likes yours. I imagine that makes your situation more workable, because the dog is more malleable, but also maybe more time-sensitive, since you want your pup to be able to develop those normal social skills while she's still young. Anyway, I always found success stories from others who'd been where I was to be very helpful in my early days with Buddy. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Thanks for the ideas ya'll. She is in puppy class with my previous foster pup Joy (she had several photos in the Gallery area) and her new family and she reacts very well to Joy so I'll try to use that relationship to reward for correct behavior. Then maybe Joy can show her how to be a more normal dog. She is such a sweetie pie. We like her a lot and she is absolutely wonderful with people. I think she is going to make someone a wonderful friend. Here she is... And here she is on her back requesting a belly rub. Isn't she cute!?! Olivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Oop Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 What a pretty girl she is! I have a dog who is a little dog fearful -- I won't call it aggression, because he doesn't act towards other dogs, but he does growl. I was forewarned from the rescue I adopted him from, so we have not had any real confrontations, but he does react to a lot of other dogs in a negative way by growling and posturing. I have another dog with which he gets along just fine and is extremely affectionate. We are currently trying to reward him for good behavior with other dogs by giving him a special treat that he doesn't get any other time except when he meets other dogs. I have given all of the neighbors with dogs bags of the treat and they give them to Rusty, and the other dogs, whenever they come over. So far, I think this is working quite well. We still have some moments where he is growling and fur is ruffled, but for the most part this treat plan works just fine. I also recommend "The Cautious Canine" by Patrica McConnell, as a good read for dogs who are fearful. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WoobiesMom Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 We were very lucky in that there's a small park nearby where lots of ladies walk their dogs. They were wonderful when I explained Buddy's situation, and were very patient with my loitering near them without actually talking to them! We did a LOT of walking behind groups of owners and dogs, so Buddy could get familiar with the scents but not have to do face-to-face introductions. One big man, a therapist who works with troubled adolescents, made a point of walking very slowly in front of us, with treats in his hand, until after MONTHS, Buddy could meet him without barking. (Now, he runs to this man like a long-lost friend. Naturally, the guy is kind of pleased!) Ahhh dog people! Gotta love 'em! This is how I've worked on socializing Woobie to strangers. Now there are certain people at the dog park that Woobie runs to like long lost friends! It's funny to watch their pride that they're one of the "select few" that Woobie will let touch him! LOL The book recommendations are good ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bula's Lady Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I got Bula right from a woman who breed's border collies and she showed the same traits when put into a new situation as your dog. Bula is very submissive but is also very tentative when meeting a new dog especially off property, and at first she is very nippy, showing teeth, and creating space around herself. I was a bit nervous that she wasn't going to be a good pack dog, but encouraging her to play with the other dogs that came to the farm has made her much better. To help her even more we did get a puppy for her...kramer, and they are the best of buds! You dog is a wicked cutie! good luck with her, i bet she will come around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 You dog is a wicked cutie! LOL! I knew right away you were a fellow New Englander. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bula's Lady Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 LOL! I knew right away you were a fellow New Englander. Mary yes, yes i am. but i prounounce my r's do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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