KrisK Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 May 04, 2007 Publish For Comment Results: Border Collie Results from polling of Members regarding whether Members will allow the Border Collie to become a Listed Breed with CKC: National Total: 851 Members Disagree – 207 Agree – 644 Sigh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrider Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 I`d like to know how the CKC can admit a breed for their eventual registration in CKC when there is already a registry for border collies. Ag Canada rules give only one option for a breed registry. This seems to break the rules of Ag Canada`s own standing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 yes, it sure looks that way doesn't it? I emailed CBCA with the results of the poll. I'm still not clear that a poll of the members will automatically allow BC's into CKC events, etc. I would assume the board would need to approve and that CBCA would be able to fight this legally under the Ag. Canada rules. I guess it's still a 'film at 11:00" situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 The Canadian Kennel Club IS NOT becoming the registering body for Border Collies in Canada. Border Collies ARE NOT becoming a CKC "recognized" breed. THe CKC amended its rules and regulations so that breeds not registered with the CKC, can be accepted into the Miscallanoues List upon application to the Canadian Kennel Club, and if accepted, individuals of those breeds can obtain a Misc. Number (or whatever CKC plans on calling it) and compete in CKC sanctioned events, whcih includes conformation showing. So if any of the 6 breeds registered with the Canine Federation of Canada wished to compete in CKC events, they could make appilcation to the CKC to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 I'm sure CBCA are considering their options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 and compete in CKC sanctioned events, whcih includes conformation showing. Northof49 - The issue is entirely CONFORMATION. - If I recall correctly, Border Collies did at one time compete in CKC performance events with the exception of conformation. Perhaps that would be a reasonable compromise again. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Northof49 - The issue is entirely CONFORMATION. - If I recall correctly, Border Collies did at one time compete in CKC performance events with the exception of conformation. Perhaps that would be a reasonable compromise again. JMO I realize the issue is conformation showing - I don't want to see it either and I voted NO. Yes, I am a member of the CKC as I am a director for our Kennel Club and must therefore hold a current CKC membership - so shoot me. Yes, Border Collies used to be eliible to compete in CKC performance events. THe registration cut off date was January 1, 1994. I have one of the last Border Collies that was able to compete in CKC obedience. She will be 14 years young the end of June. (I think she may be one of the very few that are actually still alive). My post was to clarify that Border Collies will not be "registered" with the CKC, they have only been accepted to be put in the Miscellaneous list, which is totally different than being fully registered with the CKC, and as such they will be allowed to compete in all CKC sanctioned events, including conformation. The CKC will NEVER become the registry for the Border Collie here in Canada. Everyone seems to be under the misunderstanding the the CKC is now going to become the registry for Canadian Border Collies. The thing is, any kind of organization, be it CKC, AKC, Canadian Association of Rally Obedience, AMBOR, etc., can allow whatever dogs they want to, to compete in whichever events they want to and lay down the rules of how they are eligible to compete. The CKC could say that only tri-coloured red border collies are eligible to compete if they wanted to. They could say that only Poodles with pink and blue stripes on their hindlegs are eligible to compete if they wanted to. I could start the Great White North Dog Fancier's Association and put on the very same events that CKC does, including conformation, adopt the AKC standard for Border Collies, and unfortunately there is nothing that the CBCA could do about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 I realize the issue is conformation showing - I don't want to see it either and I voted NO. Yes, I am a member of the CKC as I am a director for our Kennel Club and must therefore hold a current CKC membership - so shoot me. Well, you can shoot me too since I'm also a CKC member for the same reason you are and also voted NO. The CKC will NEVER become the registry for the Border Collie here in Canada. Just wondering, have you read through the policy & procedure information? There is a lot there that could certainly lead CKC toward becoming the registry (I realize Ag Can would need to be involved.) Again, JMO. The other part, of course, it the 'requirement for a breed standard' that is listed in the procedure. Anyway, no use preaching to the converted but I'm still very disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Just wondering, have you read through the policy & procedure information? There is a lot there that could certainly lead CKC toward becoming the registry (I realize Ag Can would need to be involved.) Again, JMO. The other part, of course, it the 'requirement for a breed standard' that is listed in the procedure. Anyway, no use preaching to the converted but I'm still very disappointed. The only way that the CKC could possibly become the registering body for the Border Collie is for a poll to be done of all Border Collie breeders again in Canada, and they would have to vote in favour to to dissolve CBCA and vote in favour of registering with the CKC - that will never happen. Or at least I feel that we have a better chance that pigs will be able to fly than that ever happening, and evolution being what it is, that ain't going to be happening any time soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrider Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 I still remember voting aginst conformation for border collies back in the early 90`s. The CKC just kicked out the border collies because they didn`t want to do conformation. The board of directors just voted them out. No conformation...then out they go. I`m a CKC member with another breed(never registered the border collie with CKC). For the record - the situation for border collies to do all but conformation was regected by the CKC at that time, and then they formed a ruling on another breed and forced them out of conformation, but they can register, and do all other activities with the CKC. Double standards in the CKC all around. Thanks for the info - I thought the CKC was going to try to register the border collies also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Trailrider, is there currently a CKC breed that can do CKC events other than conformation, but is not eligible for conformation showing? Do you know what the breed is? That might be useful information. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrider Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Yes. Definitely. White German Shepherds. They register with the CKC and can participate in all events, but NOT conformation. Most of them do their conformation with the rare breeds club, and they have a show this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 It looks like they're registered as GSDs, not as a separate breed, and the only reason they're not shown in conformation is that white coloration is a disqualification under the GSD conformation standard. Not exactly the same thing, although I can see where the White German Shepherd folks would see it that way. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I thought it was a pretty sure thing that the poll would go the way it did, since it's the KC people who are voting, so I'm not really surprised. But it ain't over til it's over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrider Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 The White Shepherds used to show in CKC conformation for many years. The standard let them. It was a few breed officials of the GSD club that promoted leaving out the whites. For many years, they were accepted. Thus the "standard" changed as was convenient for some. That is the trouble with these "standards" -- they mean nothing in reality, just descriptive words representing someone`s opinion on the specific breed, changeable ideas of the written words, and all left to individual interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 I think there should be a poll taken of by ONLY the BC breeders in Canada. It is their breed after all (considering they voted to have the CBCA and NOT be registered CKC). The CKC and its people should have no say or vote in the matter, it is NOT their breed. Let the breeders decided what is and isn't good for their breed. Katelynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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