The Culture Thing

[Bill Fosher]

In the "bad breeders thread" Gary M wrote:

I was at a trial a while back where trialers were talking about trading dogs and such like football players and draft picks. That is somewhat "business as usual" in the working world, but is so foreign as to be almost unthinkable to a pet home.

 

The analogy to trading dogs like football players probably isn't a bad one, and it is illustrative of the differences between working dog culture and the pet culture that is growing around us.

 

I'm tempted to simply state that people who aren't within the culture aren't likely to understand, but that's a little bit of a cop out. But I do have to preface my comments on the subject by saying that until you have experienced the satisfaction and joy that comes from working with a dog that is really well suited to you and your needs, and until you have seen what a good life that is for the dog, it you will have to trust me that there is nothing like it that you can hope to experience outside of stockdog work.

 

Most, if not all, football trades are motivated by several factors. Economics are certainly a consideration, but the overall good of the team would probably the first consideration for most front offices. Discontented players often spend more time on the bench, wasting their talents. How many times have you head a football player ask to be played or traded?

 

It's not unlike that with dogs. If I have a dog that isn't working out for me, and I can see a likelihood that he would do better with another trainer or handler, it's really in everybody's best interest to put the two together. The dog gets work, the new handler gets a good dog, and the old handler gets some money for his time and effort in training and keeping the dog, which he can put into his efforts to find and train the replacement.

 

In the pet world, the culture of fur babies has started to equate dogs with children, and the rescue culture has the ultimate goal of finding a dog its "forever home." I have some personal problems with both cultures, but I'll try to put those aside and simply say that there are times when I think it's better for the dog to go to a new owner than for people to cling to a sentimental attachment or misguided sense of duty and keep a dog that is wrong for them.

 

So, yes, Gary M, we are talking two entirely different languages at times. When talking to civilians, I have to remind myself that "dog" doesn't necessarily mean "working Border collie." I have to remind myself that people think that "doing research" means reading some web pages over the course of a few afternoons or a month or two at the most.

 

I'm pretty new to the Border collie culture, and it took me some getting used to. I still have to admit that I feel a little uncomfortable with the fact that some of the really competitive handlers sell their dogs when they are six or seven years old to make room for the next prospect. But I do see that the sales of these dogs does everyone a favor -- even those of us who are not directly involved in the sale.

 

When a dog changes hands, you get an even better indication of its true abilities than when the same handler does well with it. Is that dog being handled well, or is it really a great dog? The chances are that if a dog changes hands and hardly misses a beat, that it is as good as it looks. We have another piece of information that we can use in breeding the next generation of working Border collies.

 

I've said in other threads that this is a culture of reputation, not regulation. Breeders of good working Border collies are known for just that. What we trust in these breeders is their judgment. I am loathe to substitute my own judgment for that of the people who have created the breed and who make it what it is and what it will be. Just 13 years in, I don't even know all the questions, let alone all the answers.

 

But it seems that folks come in from other cultures wanting regulations: no more than two litters per year, no bitches over five years old may be bred, etc., etc. The idea is to keep down the number of dogs being bred, with the idea that then fewer dogs will be maltreated, and that the ones being bred will really be worthwhile. Noble ideas, but as others have pointed out, the worst offenders will simply register their dogs elsewhere, or not register them at all. And the best breeders will occasionally rub up against these regulations and not be able to do a breeding that really should be done for the future of the breed.

 

The fact of the matter is that as long as people are willing to pay more for them than the cost of production, there will be puppy mills. As long as puppies are cute and people love their dogs and want another just like it, there will be backyard breeders.

 

I am not saying that we should simply throw up our hands and do nothing, but whatever we do we have to be congnizant of the culture of the working Border collie, and not try to make this round peg fit into some other breed's square hole. The culture of reputation is what has made the breed what it is today, and we shouldn't throw it out.

[toney]

Wonderfully stated post, Bill. Thank you.

 

Terry Toney

[Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke]

Bill, good words.

 

I agree with you about the whole thing and I can tell you that the biggest thing helping me come to terms with my own anxieties about dog's fate being in our hands has been the wisdom of the old hats I've been privledged to learn under. Myself coming from a vocation in the pet industry where the clientele is primarily looking to have their dogs treated as if they were truly their children and not companion animals (much less working dogs), this education has helped me in my stockdog work as well as what I do for a living. My reputation as a groomer is terrific in my area; what I do with hard to handle dogs is magical to my clients and my employer, probably 90% of that is due to learning from folks in the natural horse circles and Jack Knox. Funny, being able to groom a wild poodle with help from the likes of Tom Dorrance and Jack.

So, what does that have to do with the discussion? I think that the wisdom of the people we respect being in it for the good of the dogs (as a whole) should be heeded over our desire to make perfect the things that we see as problematic, like the areas better stated by Bill. Discussions like these are key to give folks a chance to consider the ethics of dog handling and breeding, and to better educate people about their responsibilites in working, breeding and trading in dogs. I've given a good deal of thought to how I can best affect the future of animal care and handling, and I'm pretty content that I can make a difference through 4H, with my horse, sheep and dogs kids. They will have access to the instrumental animal people I have learned from so they hopefully have an open mind and be willing to always consider an animal's instincts as primary to it's effective handling. I too do not have the wisdom my "elders" do, but I know they make me think, and that's what I want to keep doing. What works makes good sense. It's so true that if you want to know how your dog is doing, watch your sheep. It's that simple. I will keep watching and listening to the people I respect. They got us here, essentially. Hope this makes sense.

[Deacon Dog]

Good post.

 

Just like to add that there's old hats out there who trade dogs but care for certain ones after they retire and cry when they die. These are not tears for dead children but tears for respected partners and life times of jobs well done.

[laurie etc]

Originally posted by Bill Fosher:

The analogy to trading dogs like football players probably isn't a bad one, and it is illustrative of the differences between working dog culture and the pet culture that is growing around us.

... until you have experienced the satisfaction and joy that comes from working with a dog that is really well suited to you and your needs, and until you have seen what a good life that is for the dog, it you will have to trust me that there is nothing like it that you can hope to experience outside of stockdog work.

...Discontented players often spend more time on the bench, wasting their talents. How many times have you head a football player ask to be played or traded?

It's not unlike that with dogs. ... but I'll try to put those aside and simply say that there are times when I think it's better for the dog to go to a new owner than for people to cling to a sentimental attachment or misguided sense of duty and keep a dog that is wrong for them.

I really appreciate the thought that went into that post, Bill. Very good summary of "the working Border Collie culture" that stems from the livestock culture. Personally, from a horse (quasi-livestock)culture, I have similar views. You certainly can't keep, or take back every horse you breed, sell or train. It wouldn't be feasible, and I'm not so vain as to think that my home is "the best home" for every animal that passes through my hands. I believe stewardship of the lives that are entrusted to us is important, but that doesn't make it wrong to pass that life along to another appropriate owner, and sometimes that is a much better option than keeping an animal and "shelving it" because it isn't fulfilling your needs. At any rate, I'm rambling, but well said, Bill. People who have only known a few animals in their lives as pets and "fur babies" do not always understand how the livestock/working dog culture can be "so callous". For the most part, it isn't, and your post does help clarify.

[Gary M]

Thank you Bill for expounding on that comment I made. Thanks also for replying in the spirit my original comment was made.

 

I was not making a value judgment on the working world versus the pet home world and appreciate that you saw that.