ABCA registration - tattoo required?

[MrSnappy]

in Canada CBCA registered dogs must be tattooed or microchipped by the breeder. Is this the case for the ABCA as well? We have an ABCA registered (supposedly) dog in rescue that came with pedigree and bill of sale and microchip. Oddly the birthdate on the bill of sale / microchip papers does not match the one on the pedigree. We also believe the dog to be much younger than his pedigree would claim. The dog also has no tattoo and the microchip was implanted by the previous owner not the breeder. Hence my question.

 

RDM

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

No it is not required. Canada has much more strict requirements of breeders to permanently ID their dogs. I have a Canadian tatooed dog.

[Northof49]

Originally posted by MrSnappy:

The dog also has no tattoo and the microchip was implanted by the previous owner not the breeder. Hence my question.

 

RDM

RDM

 

I would then assume that the owners put the microchip in for identificatin purposes.

 

IF the microchip was put in for registration purposes then CBCA would have a record of that, as if you are microchipping instead of tatooing, the microchips must come from the registy you are registering with.

[MrSnappy]

Originally posted by Northof49:

I would then assume that the owners put the microchip in for identificatin purposes.

Yeah ... I know that....???

 

IF the microchip was put in for registration purposes then CBCA would have a record of that, as if you are microchipping instead of tatooing, the microchips must come from the registy you are registering with.

The dog is ABCA registered (supposedly), not CBCA registered. I don't know what question you're answering. My question was - is the ABCA required to tattoo / microchip or otherwise identify a dog when registering it? Annette says it is not. Which means, therefore, we have no way of tracking if this dog's registration papers are in fact true or false.

 

RDM

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

RDM,

 

Short of DNA testing the dog and the parents, no. The AKC requires chip or tattoo for ID but not at litter registration. At least last I checked. They don't enforce the IDing either. I've never been to a show or trial where any ID was checked.

Edit: the ABCA is more relaxed because they probably know it isn't feasible to enforce. The result would be less registered litters I think

[Katelynn & Gang]

MrSnappy

 

Unless the dogs chip number was placed on the ABCA papers when the breeder register it there will be no way of tracking its pedigree from the chip number.

 

Its a choice to do it. ABCA does not enforce it. Many breeders do not do it.

 

Katelynn

[MrSnappy]

Okay let me try again.

 

The fact that the dog was chipped by its previous owners was something I mentioned in passing, that's all. Illustrating the fact that the dog was not chipped by a breeder. I am not trying to trace the breeder through the chip - I have the dog's pedigree (supposedly) and therefore I know who the breeder (again supposedly) is.

 

The dog is also not tattooed. My only question was "does the ABCA require identifcation upon registration" like the CBCA does. Apparently it does not.

 

I'm really sorry everyone got so hung up on the microchip thing. What is confusing to us is not that the owner chipped the dog, but that the date of birth on the chip info is different from the pedigree registration; and also the bill of sale has a different birthdate than the pedigree / registration. Since the ABCA doesn't require any form of identification, I suppose the only way to find out why this dog has two sets of paperwork with conflicting information would be to call the breeder and ask for clarification. Which I am not prepared to do.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

RDM

[juliepoudrier]

RDM,

 

The only ID on ABCA papers is a physical description of the dog.

 

Unfortunately the ABC description can be somewhat off base (their looks do change as they grow) and so not a good way to positively ID a dog. For example, Kat's pedigree says she's red with a white collar and blaze on left side of her face. Well, I suppose that's technically correct, but she's actually a red tri with heavy ticking too. Her description could nearly match Jill or Farleigh, so I could pass at least Jill (same sex) off as Kat if all I had to go by was the description on her papers.

 

All of which would make me suspicious about the breeder and whether some sort of switch happened somewhere. But then you probably already wondered that!

 

I guess there's no way of knowing whose papers you really have.

 

Canada's system makes good sense to me.

 

J.

[Northof49]

The trouble with the descriptin of the markings is that they can change between the time the puppy is registered and once the full coat comes in. Often the ticking etc does not come out until the dog is older and already registered with ABCA/NASDS. Also, blazes can fill in as well. My one dog had a full narrow white collar when he was registered at 10 weeks old, but by the time he was a year, the one side was fill in with the black, so he no longer had a full white collar. My one bitch had a lovely blaze going up her forehead when she was a baby, but by 10 months of age, it was just a tiny strip of a few white hairs.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

White gets less and tri increases, plus ticking fills in with age also. So if a breeder is not really aware of this (or doesn't really care), the dog description can really be kind of humorous when compared to the "final product."

 

Actually, it's sort of a hilarious operation trying to figure it out to register the pups. Nancy, Laura, and I sat in the opthamologist's office with armfuls of wiggly puppies, getting the info to fill out the papers (Steve waited until they were sold so that he could send papers directly to the new owners). "No, wait, was that blaze on the right or left? Is that collar broken? No, that's the other pup - where's his other foot?"

 

Anyway, that's all beside the point but I think you have your answer. No permanent ID for ABCA. It may change because ISDS is going in that direction for the sake of the CERF DNA. But that doesn't help you now.

 

You could have a dog with some other dog's papers. We've picked up multiple dogs before and come home with the papers of a dog that was obviously the deceased sire of one of the dogs we had (the dog in question being middle aged and the papers showing a birthdate indicating the dog was in his twenties). Or, the previous owner could have just made something up when they registered the dog with the microchip people -if they were unable or unwilling to find the papers at that moment.

 

Ahh, the little mysteries of life.

[IronHorse]

I have seen ABCA pedigrees that the physical description was blank. Hopefully ABCA is looking to tighten up their Identification critia.It is definatly lacking with all that is available today.