kajarrel Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 I am thinking of marketing some of my cull ewes as sheep for a raw diet. Before I run an ad, I'd like some advice about what "form" the meat should take. My butcher could grind the meat, cut in stew type or larger pieces, bone-in/bone-out. . . We also specify a package size - suggestions? Any other things I should know about? For example, I'm assuming that I'll get some calls from people who are just thinking about feeding their dogs a raw diet, are there experiences that you've had with feeding raw "lamb" that I should know about? Have any of you sheep people out there done this? Experiences? Thanks in advance! Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 I don't have ANY experience feeding lamb - too expensive here. But the great beef that I get - my butcher will "grind" it for me. It comes out much bigger than hamburger and smaller than most of the stew beef one finds around here. If I cut it up myself, I aim for about 1 to 1.5" cubes - though of course they're never quite that size. Package size would depend greatly on your customers! With three dogs on the diet (one 80 lb., one 50 lb. and one 40 lb), I'd prefer to buy meat (or thaw it out) twice a week. Longer means some part of it is exposed to air longer with the chance of any stray bacteria starting to grow. When I travel, I package one meal per Ziplock bag - then thaw them out one by one, and don't have to worry about measuring out or cleanup as much. I would think that in NY, you might be able to have a great customer base for this! But sorry, no experience. diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted October 4, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 Thanks, Diane, I'm hoping. The prices I'd get at auction are pitiful and I can't market them to some of the traditional ethnic markets because the ewes absolutely must not be bred (and I can't insure this). I don't feed a raw diet for a number of reasons so I'm totally in the dark about the practices of people who do. What you've written is very helpful. I don't know how my butcher will deal with "doggie" serving sizes - they have enough problems with the special requests of the ethic markets Just out of curiousity, do you have an estimate of what you spend on beef (per pound)? Do you buy culls? Kim ------------------ Black Dog Farm http://www.blackdogfarm.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 Hi Kim, The last time I looked into having cull ewes boned and ground (for human consumption as sausage) the slaughterhouse was going to whack me pretty hard for boning out the whole carcass. They also had an additional charge for grinding lamb or mutton because they have to batch grind, and they don't get enough lamb to do a large batch. However, it would have still been worth doing. The final ground meat ended up costing me about $2.50 per pound, with a value of $40 on the cull ewe. (I simply didn't have the time to market the finished sausage product, which would have retailed for about $6 per pound.) Right now, if you were to send that same ewe to auction, you'd be lucky to get $20. However, the market might start to recover shortly. There was a recent sale of about 800 cull sheep here in the Northeast from a single operation, and there's been a lot of drought selling. Drought selling should be coming to a close pretty quick, and the major culling is a one-off event. I would guess that by late November, you'll probably start to see cull sheep prices climb to more normal levels. ------------------ Bill Fosher Surry, NH [This message has been edited by Bill Fosher (edited 10-04-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpNatEm Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 Too bad you are up yonder because here in the midwest we are looking for lamb to buy for our dogs.In the midwest here we have a co op group called the Midwest BarfBuyers that orders monthly from a major meat wholesaler.The group has about 200 members so far and growing.I bet if you went to www.egroups.com and for "find my group" typed rawfeeders or raw or k9nutrition and join and post you'll get takers.There is also a group called BCs4raw.How we like our meat for dogs is in 1-5lb packages ground and packaged seperate or bones with meat. Sue Barta www.bartasborders.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted October 5, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Bill, that's helpful. (BTW - do you have a good sausage recipe? We're thinking about trying to make some sausage ourselves this year. A co-worker of mine used to make a mediterranean sausage that was out-of-this- world but I've lost track of her . . .) I'm incredibly lucky - we have local butcher that does *anything* and *everything* for $30/sheep. They'll grind small batches of meat - I typically have them grind the breast, neck and/or shanks (for humans). I have yet to have them charge any more for any type of cut I specify. Now they're not the most meticulous butchers - I could pay more per sheep and get more careful trimming,etc., but most of my customers don't notice the difference and thus aren't willing to pay more for higher quality. I will talk to my butcher about the cost of grinding and boning the whole animal, however. Sue, you're the second person that's recommended the BARF lists. Is it OK to "advertise" there? I was just planning on placing an ad in our local "Pennysavers" (are these just a local phenomena?) and seeing what the response is. I'm not a "doggie sport" person so I've been wondering about how to spread the word. You find "pet ads" posted at the pet supply stores around here, but I doubt they'd encourage/allow ads for raw diets. People who frequent the (livestock) feeds stores, OTOH, are probably unlikely to feed a raw diet . . . Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Hi Kim, I have a book of sausage recipes around here somewhere that I was itching to try out and experiment with. There's a shop in Royal Oak, Michigan, near where my in-laws live, that makes a garlic-rosemary lamb sausage that I think I could duplicate -- it's incredibly good. So what would your costs be? Does $30 include slaughter? If you want to get something for the ewe ($40 would be my minimum) and cover the butching costs, plus have something for your time, you're probably talking about $85 to $90 per ground-up sheep. I think it's reasonable to expect that you'd have 25 to 35 pounds of ground meat at the end of the process, so you're right about $3 per pound. Unless you have a lot of the bones ground in, then your yield would rise and your cost per pound would drop. I think you'd also want to look into the regulations and make sure that you're not going to run afoul of state and federal laws selling meat -- even for animal consumption -- if it's not federally inspected. ------------------ Bill Fosher Surry, NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted October 5, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 NYS allows me to sell the lamb - but not the meat. Technically, I'd be selling the lamb to the customer and they'd be paying the butcher (if this makes sense). Bill, my choice lamb (some bone-in, some boneless - yielding a little less than 50% of live weight) goes for around $2.60/lb. The ewes in question are Corriedales that weigh between 150 and 200 lbs. If I get 33% yield on 150 lbs and charge $85 ($30 of this including slaughter, dressing and processing) - this would cost $1.70/lb. Do you think this is too optimistic? Guys (gals), where are you buying your meat? Do you buy half and whole animals? What are you paying? I'm trying to decide if I'm in the ballpark . . . Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted October 5, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Bill, If you find the book, could you send me the title? The sausage sounds much like what you describe but it also had a mildly sweet taste - maybe was flavored with nutmeg or cinnamon . . . ? Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Kim et al - Maybe mint? I had some pretty incredible lamb sausage that had been custom ground with some fresh mint leaves... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanne Bell Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Isn't there a tapeworm that completes it's lifecycle when dogs eat raw sheep? I believe it causes a brain disease referred to as Gid. Perhaps this is restricted to the British Isles. Or not a problem as long as the offal or brain matter is not fed? Anyone know? And $30.00/ sheep is a deal! I just got raked by my local butcher. He charged $45.00 to do lambs. The other guy (who I used previously) charged $35.00 but he went bankrupt last year. Jeanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikw Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Isolated cases of Gid is found in US. Foxes now coyotes are known to be the carriers. Sheep are affected by eating the wildlife excrements left on hay or pastures. If I'm not mistaken,last hosts are rumenents. ------------------ Inci Willard Clearville,PA 814-784-3414 ikw@pennswoods.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Hi Jeanne You might be thinking of the hydatid tapeworm which is transmitted via dogs to humans - causes horrible great cysts in major organs - cysts tend to recur, and can be fatal. As far as I know, the dog is unaffected by this - it?s just the intermediate host. That?s the bad news. The good news is that it?s only picked up from the dog eating offal from affected sheep. Lamb from the butchers is OK because it has been inspected at the slaughterhouse - although I still don?t feed raw sheep offal even from the butcher. Here in Tasmania, hydatids used to be a major problem, and farm dogs had to be wormed with praziquantal every 6 weeks. By a major testing program, it?s been eradicated here, although all dogs coming in from the mainland (that?s the local word for the rest of Australia) have to be wormed with praziquantal just in case. (The government actually supplies the tablets.) ------------------ Barb [This message has been edited by Tassie (edited 10-05-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted October 6, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2002 I am still hoping to hear from people who feed the BARF diet regarding three questions: Where do you get your meat? (will this be an option that people are familiar with or open to?) How much meat do you typically buy/store at a time? How much do you spend on average (per pound)? Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpNatEm Posted October 6, 2002 Report Share Posted October 6, 2002 "Where do you get your meat? (will this be an option that people are familiar with or open to?)" I get mine from a co op barf buyers group here in MN.We(200 of us) order from a major meat wholesaler market here monthly.But I do know if people try they can try their local meat market and order from their wholesaler. "How much meat do you typically buy/store at a time?" I have 6 dogs raw fed and order 160-200lbs a month with a total cost of $70-100 tops/month(chicken backs,ground chicken,pork neck bones or beef neck bones) How much do you spend on average (per pound)? Chicken-avreages 24 cents-50cents/lb. Haven't tried lamb but would love to.Last person tried to sell here lamb at $1.75/lb and I hear that's too high. Sue Barta and yes you would not be out of line to advertise on the raw feeding egroups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Kjarrel: Here's my deal on purchasing raw meat. A bit different from Sue's. I live in a small town (6000 people,very tourist oriented), 125 miles to the next biggest town of +/- 60,000 people. We have one large chain grocery store, and another smaller non-chain. About two years ago, we got a small butcher shop. Ta daa! He advertises beef from a nearby state, no antibiotics (I'm assuming this really means "only as needed...."), no hormones, range-fed. I asked about buying a quarter or half beef, and we got to talking. Now, he grinds me what I need, when I need it (though I have to call early in the day before he cleans the grinder!). It comes out much larger than hamburger, but smaller than most of the large chunks one gets for stew beef. I usually buy it twice a week, depending upon weekend travel plans, etc. The smallest quantity I ask for is usually about four pounds, and I've gotten up to 15 at a time (to freeze in my smaller packages). He also has beef and calf liver, and beef heart (all of which I use raw with regular meat, and sometimes cooked for treats!). He also carries pork and chicken, though I haven't gotten any of this from him. He can't grind bones, even chicken, so I usually just get them "whole." He sometimes has the longer marrow bones that I like; too often, they're smaller and too splinter-y. (Would be fine for smaller dogs I guess, but not my big-jawed guy!) Usually, I'm paying around $3 per pound - not cheap. I'd sure like it cheaper, but figure I'm paying for quality AND the grinding - worth a lot of my time! The chain store sometimes has a "buy one, get one free" deal, and it can be much cheaper. But then, of course, I have to cut it up myself! Haven't even priced lamb at this shop - don't think it would be any less expensive. I'd like to have a bit more variety of meats too - again, just no sources. Advertising: I suppose the internet is the place, but there are LOTS of dog magazines that might also be good choices. (I'm thinking particularly of Clean Run for agility enthusiasts. Their web site is www.cleanrun.com. diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpNatEm Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 kjarrel-go to www.egroups.com and join these three groups-BCs4raw,rawfeeding(?),and k9nutrition and simply state after you are a member what you have and what state you are in and you probably will get takers.It's not inappropriate to advertise because someone here in MN did just tat on or MN BarfBuyers group and she did get some takers but I thought she was a little high. Sue Barta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Where do you get your meat? (will this be an option that people are familiar with or open to?) I get the bulk of my RMBs from a local butcher, who happens to sell chicken backs and necks at a very reasonable 20 center per lb. This makes up the bulk of their raw meaty portion of the diet. The ground meat, which we feed once a week, is also from a local butcher. It's not particularly inexpensive, but I also only feed it once a week. Twice a week my dogs get canned fish for breakfast. And they also get other bones, like beef marrow bones, or pork hocks, from the butcher as well - but one to two times per week only. My herding instructor does offer lamb bones for sale and lamb meat, but the meat is too expensive for me at $3.25 per lb Meat). We buy the bones for recretional chewing when he has some, and they are $5.00 for a large bag of them. How much meat do you typically buy/store at a time? Because I live in an apartment and have no deep freeze, I buy 25lbs of RMBs at a time, and far less of the other meats. How much do you spend on average (per pound)? Well, as I say, it's 20 cents/lb for the bulk of the diet we feed, so the rest of it I have never actually averaged. I usually buy enough ground beef to last 4 meals for the dogs, and that cost me about $5.00 it's really litle more than an overstuffed package. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted October 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Thanks everyone - your input has been extremely helpful. I actually was able to have a good conversation with my butcher this a.m. regarding what I would need to make a go of this (his comment was, "boy, you're a go-getter"). Boning and grinding the whole animal will cost more as it's more labor intensive ;-( Clearly, I won't be able to compete with chicken - the butchering costs alone cost more / pound than what you're paying for chicken. Also, it appears, from what you write, that people may want to buy less than half a "lamb" at a time so I'll need to check to see if the same legal restrictions (can't sell meat, only animal) hold when selling meat for animal vs. human consumption. I'll let you know how this turns out. Kim ------------------ Black Dog Farm http://www.blackdogfarm.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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